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Post by peter on Mar 10, 2013 21:05:14 GMT 7
Hello Flyer.
The 25 years AWLR applies to OAP and not DSP as far as I know.
And as long as you never go off the DSP you will not be affected by it. You can stay on the DSP into your dotage and demise as it is at present and never have to apply for the OAP 26 years hence for you.
But rules may change. Let us hope that if they do then they will follow the past practice to grandfather those already on existing rules so that changes do not affect them. Things can change but the troubles of today are sufficient thereto, so leave what you cannot change ahead, alone.
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flyer
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Post by flyer on Mar 10, 2013 23:48:01 GMT 7
Hi Peter, had a look in the act and DSP is exempt from proportionality if unable to work or blindness occurs while an australian resident. S1220B SSA Act
The letter i got was vague about AWLR and dsp agreement countries. I sent an email asking about agreement countries only and in the reply it does say dsp is payable indefinately at a non proportional rate.
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Post by baranghope on Mar 11, 2013 1:39:40 GMT 7
Hello Flyer: there are some other considerations with regard to the current ability to stay on the DSP instead of converting to OAP. First, the age requirement goalposts are changing:
From 1 July 2017, the qualifying age for Age Pension will increase from 65 years to 65 and a half years. The qualifying age will then rise by six months every two years, reaching 67 by 1 July 2023.
The LNP have already implied they want the age requirement to go to 70, quicksmart. And of course the AWLR shifts to a 35 year requirement in 2014, again goalpost changes.
Second, on the DSP you now have minimal travel freedom unless granted UP . . . and there appears to be some new "punishment" issues arising for UPers with regard to accessing Medicare etc.
It is beginning to look like anyone who knows they are only going to reside full-time in Australia may be better on DSP. However, you will be sitting on the DSP while the goalposts keep changing and could find yourself unable to get on the OAP due to the age and goalpost changes. Also, while the full DSP is granted to Australian citizens without AWLR, proportionality based on dual citizenship will be applied once you apply for the OAP. Meaning, they are even asking some OAP applicants to source a % of their OAP from countries where they lived and worked for a few years. Beware. I for example will take the OAP within 4 years but will lose a % of my current overall DSP income, because my AWLR will be 33 not 35 years! A tradeoff I will happily make if can retire to some Buddhist heaven.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2013 8:30:34 GMT 7
Hi Cheetal, i have it in writing, it's an updated version of the "your plans to travel" letter saying dsp can be paid indefinately outside australia, 42 days pcc etc. I'm 39 so will be affected by the working life residence after 26 weeks o/s as i don't have the current 25 years over 16, i don't know if i'm still a considered a resident. I'm overseas now so maybe that's why a letter was sent. How you are treated by them is all the luck of the draw, although after 20 years of mind numbing drugs i don't know if i could tell the difference in how they treat me. Good for you Flyer, it seems they've got different strokes by/for different folks:)) Banj, told me to get my complete Job Assessment File, and not a single page as they offered and so I did; make sure you get that one day also mate; it makes for interesting reading? Cheetal...
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Post by peter on Mar 11, 2013 9:05:13 GMT 7
For DSPs currently restricted to Australia, their only escape is the portable DSP, the OAP, or death.
The scene changes all the time and to predict the situation far ahead is just not possible, because the changes come from policy, politics and caprice or any jumble thereof.
The one that stands out as anomalous is allowing DSPs to remain on OAP at age pension age. If they should ever equalise them, then AWLR will apply but since this anomaly has been there for years already, it might just stay that way, but not if anyone seriously overhauls this patchwork welfare system that we have. Still, grandparenting may apply or may not.
And perhaps the reasoning behind increasing the AWLR from 25 years to 35 years was that the other country where one resided could pick up the pension tab. Well, that works for the 22 countries that Australia as Social Security Agreements with and does not work for the other 178 countries that Australia does not have agreements with in which case, the OAP can fund it out of his own pocket and if his pocket is empty, well, he can just go with out.
Thank you Mr Swan, it will be a pleasure to see you out of a job soon. One only wishes that your pocket would be as empty as you wished it upon others. And no thanks for warning them in advance as many had been planning on the 25 year AWLR due to your words in the Parliament in 2002 where you so vigourously resisted any change to it. And no thanks for grandfathering those affected, cause thanks are not needed for what you did not do.
When one applies for the OAP today, they make one fill out an application to the Social Security System of the country one previously resided in. For example: The Manager, Social Security System, Sri Lanka; requesting details of whatever pension one might be entitled to which will be nil, since most have no such systems, as evidence by the numerous people coming here to put their names onto the Australian system.
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Post by Banjo on Mar 11, 2013 9:25:35 GMT 7
How does AWLR work Peter? I got the idea that it's the time you spend in Australia while you are "of working age", eg from say 15 to 65, but you don't actually have to have worked the full 35 years. An example would be that assume I've spent most of my life in Australia.. I was a boat kid... but went on the DSP at 49, that would only give me, say, 33 years in the workforce. Would my OAP then be adjusted living overseas?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2013 12:08:54 GMT 7
How does AWLR work Peter? I got the idea that it's the time you spend in Australia while you are "of working age", eg from say 15 to 65, but you don't actually have to have worked the full 35 years. An example would be that assume I've spent most of my life in Australia.. I was a boat kid... but went on the DSP at 49, that would only give me, say, 33 years in the workforce. Would my OAP then be adjusted living overseas? Peter I will be Interested Too. I had been on Newstart for a few years Will that be taken Into Account As Work? Before i went on DSP. Hope to hear what you think
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Post by ghostbuster on Mar 11, 2013 12:44:23 GMT 7
Hi all. When i was assessed for oap they said i had 580 working hours. The minimum is 320 if i remember correctly, but not sure where they get these figures.
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Post by Banjo on Mar 11, 2013 14:16:31 GMT 7
Beats me, first I've heard of this for the OAP.
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Post by thomas on Mar 11, 2013 14:48:19 GMT 7
Currently in Thailand, back in Oz 28th March after a 8 week stay, yes I expect to have my Dsp payment stopped after 6 weeks which is next Tuesday. About myself- 56 year old male who was left paraplegic after a work accident in 1976 as a 19 year old. Married a Thai in 2005 who lives with me in Australia and is also my full time carer and hope to obtain Oz citizenship for her later this year. I was first on Dsp in 1977 since then I have worked from time to time, 4 different jobs totally approx. 6 years. My last employment was 5 years ago. I am full time in a manual wheelchair and unable to walk at all. My plan is to apply and hopefully obtain total portability and reside and retire full time in Thailand...we have a comfortable home here....my story in a nut shell. Thanks for reading
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Post by peter on Mar 11, 2013 15:36:11 GMT 7
For gb, The way they calculate it is by months. But 25 times 12 months gives 320 months, so yes, presently the residency required in Australia to qualify for a fully portable pension is 320 months. They are residential months and not working months. And if you had 580 residential months, then you spent most of your working life resident in Australia but you only need the 320. But even a few months of Australian residency can qualify one for part OAP; not sure what the minimum is.
Other countries do what Centrelink do, and when one goes into the German or Greek Social Security they ask "where have you lived" and if the answer is six years in Australia, they will quick smart send off to Centrelink a claim for a part pension which would presently be the fraction of 6 on 25, and as from Jan 1, next year the fraction of 6 on 35 and I think they take the months into the calculation to get it exact.
The AWLR is calculated from age 16 to age 65. The birthday of age 16 is the beginning and the birthday of age 65 is the end of the period. Even if you work to 70, it is not counted. And as for the increased retirement age to 67, that probably will be counted.
It is residency based. So even if one never had a status such as housewife, nun, prison inmate or DSP or Carer, that does not matter. What matters is one's residency in Australia. AWLR is Australian Working Life Residence.
It was not previously a residency based formula. In the time of Whitlam, it was a citizenship criteria. Then Howard introduced the 25 year AWLR rule in 2002, and Swan the 35 year AWLR rule starting 2014.
They want superannuation to replace more and more of the OAP but superannuation will never entirely do that cause not everyone will ever have superannuation or if they do, not enough of it. The OAP is to provide a minimum base.
The assets and income test is supposed to ensure that it goes where its needed.
But they are not fair dinkum about super either, where it is funded with tax concessions that far exceed the cost of the OAP for many people being given super tax concessions, and where one can take his tax concessional super at 60 place it where it is effective to do so, and front up for another hand out at age 65 for the OAP. Yes, a system designed by the system for those in the system and want more which is a lot of people.
Its a system based on the energies of politics rather than the energy of equitability or fair play. It is after all the Common Wealth of Australia, and not a private backyard for vested interests.
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Post by peter on Mar 11, 2013 15:41:24 GMT 7
Hello Thomas. Residing in Australia, as a DSP with a Carer, is a married pension rate. Residing overseas in Thailand as a DSP is one half the married rate with no Carer rate. Money is less, but the quality of life is more, much more. Good luck with the application and with the move.
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Post by Banjo on Mar 11, 2013 16:04:29 GMT 7
For gb, The way they calculate it is by months. But 25 times 12 months gives 320 months, so yes, presently the residency required in Australia to qualify for a fully portable pension is 320 months. They are residential months and not working months. And if you had 580 residential months, then you spent most of your working life resident in Australia but you only need the 320. But even a few months of Australian residency can qualify one for part OAP; not sure what the minimum is. Other countries do what Centrelink do, and when one goes into the German or Greek Social Security they ask "where have you lived" and if the answer is six years in Australia, they will quick smart send off to Centrelink a claim for a part pension which would presently be the fraction of 6 on 25, and as from Jan 1, next year the fraction of 6 on 35 and I think they take the months into the calculation to get it exact. The AWLR is calculated from age 16 to age 65. The birthday of age 16 is the beginning and the birthday of age 65 is the end of the period. Even if you work to 70, it is not counted. And as for the increased retirement age to 67, that probably will be counted. It is residency based. So even if one never had a status such as housewife, nun, prison inmate or DSP or Carer, that does not matter. What matters is one's residency in Australia. AWLR is Australian Working Life Residence. It was not previously a residency based formula. In the time of Whitlam, it was a citizenship criteria. Then Howard introduced the 25 year AWLR rule in 2002, and Swan the 35 year AWLR rule starting 2014. They want superannuation to replace more and more of the OAP but superannuation will never entirely do that cause not everyone will ever have superannuation or if they do, not enough of it. The OAP is to provide a minimum base. The assets and income test is supposed to ensure that it goes where its needed. But they are not fair dinkum about super either, where it is funded with tax concessions that far exceed the cost of the OAP for many people being given super tax concessions, and where one can take his tax concessional super at 60 place it where it is effective to do so, and front up for another hand out at age 65 for the OAP. Yes, a system designed by the system for those in the system and want more which is a lot of people. Its a system based on the energies of politics rather than the energy of equitability or fair play. It is after all the Common Wealth of Australia, and not a private backyard for vested interests. Excellent post Peter, I'm going to put a copy in the OAP section as a sticky. Many thanks.
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Post by ghostbuster on Mar 11, 2013 16:37:35 GMT 7
Thanks Peter for the explanation mate. I have`nt got anything in writing yet as to permanent portability, so will phone cl and ask for it in writing.
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Post by Banjo on Mar 11, 2013 17:57:51 GMT 7
Hi all. When i was assessed for oap they said i had 580 working hours. The minimum is 320 if i remember correctly, but not sure where they get these figures. OK, got my online letter re:payment tonight and down the bottom it said I have 1000 .
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