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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 6:44:02 GMT 7
If you have a robo-debt, you may be stopped from going overseas. Anna* was pretty excited about the prospect of living and working abroad. "I was planning on going overseas because I had just got a role as an English teacher in Indonesia," Anna told Hack.
She'd saved up and bought her plane tickets when she got a text message that would eventually ruin her well-thought out plans. "It was from the debt collectors. They informed me for the first time that I owed this large sum that I'd never heard of," Anna said. Anna had discovered she had a robo-debt. That's the name given to Centrelink's automated debt recovery system that started up in 2016. Under the system, rather than a human picking up inaccuracies or inconsistencies in how much a welfare recipient has been paid, a computer does. Anna finished her degree five years ago, so it was a shock to be told she owed money. "I hadn't heard anything from Centrelink for years before I got [that text]," she said. She was informed that having a debt could stop her from travelling abroad. Anna panicked. It completely changed my plans because I realised I couldn't afford to go overseas if I had this looming debt over me. "I tried to fight it for a long time and in the end it was so stressful and overwhelming that I just paid it," she said. Anna ended up calling the school she was meant to be working at and telling them she couldn't take up the position. "Because I wasn't going to earn much of an income living and working in Indonesia, and because of the fact I now had to pay off over $5000, I had to cancel my trip." Why a debt could stop you from travelling The Department of Human Services told Hack that travel bans, officially called departure prohibition orders or DPOs, have been used in cases where a person has an outstanding child support payment for ten years. They were applied to robo-debts in June last year. Human Services Minister Michael Keenan announced back in September that more than 20 travel bans were in place. "We don't believe it's appropriate for people to go on holiday when they owe the Australian taxpayer money," he said. Hack asked the Department for updated figures, but they didn't get back to us in time for publication. Minister Keenan last year said the travel ban would help recoup $800 million for the welfare sector. "We don't accept people rorting the welfare system. We have a very generous welfare system in Australia but you're only entitled to what you're getting," he told Sky News. Robo-debts 'a flawed system' The Department of Human Services last month told Senate estimates that nearly 410,000 debt notices had been sent out. Of that, 70,000 were reduced or waived entirely. "We do know that the robo-debt system is flawed and produces debts that are known to be incorrect," welfare rights lawyer at the Illawarra Legal Centre, Liz Turnbull, told Hack. "It's an automated system that looks at information from the tax office about what a person earned over a year and then averages that income out over a year. But we know some people work part-time and they might earn more in some weeks than other weeks," she said. It uses a really crude calculation because many people do not have regular work or regular work hours. Jeremy Poxon does work for the Unemployed Workers Union - a group that advocates for people who are looking for work. He said lots of people contacted his organisation shortly after Minister Keenan announced the travel ban and that the travel ban was a huge motivator for people to start a repayment plan - even if they were convinced they didn't owe anything and wanted to appeal the debt. "The ripple effect of how scared people were around that time [showed] it really did work as a real intimidating tactic for these people," he said. Anna understands that feeling. She reckons there were a lot of people like her who ended up paying because they were scared of what would happen if they didn't. "There's so many people who are so overwhelmed by the process that end up paying," she said. But Liz said there are ways to fight the debt. "The really good news I have for people who are caught up in the robo-debt system is that you can lodge an appeal." You can appeal the debt at any stage of the process, including after you've paid it off. "If you get one of these travel suppression orders you don't have to lie down and take it, you can contact advocates and we can put you in touch with lawyers," Jeremy said. www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/how-centrelink-robodebt-can-stop-you-from-travelling-overseas/10940118
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 6:58:33 GMT 7
More than 77,500 Centrelink robo-debts have been reduced or waivedMore than 77,500 Centrelink robo-debts have been reduced, waived or written off, new figures by the Department of Human Services have found. Thestats cover the period from when Centrelink started its automated debt recovery system, dubbed robo-debt, in July 2016 to December 2018.
Got a robo-debt notice? Here's where to go for help: Ask for a review through DHS Check out Not My Debt Get advice from a community law centre like Victoria Legal Aid Try the National Social Security Rights Network During that 18 month period, more than 927,000 initial assessment letters that went out. That's the first letter Centrelink sends out to people saying there's an issue and asking for clarification. From those 927,000 letters, just under half - or 445,000 - debts were raised. (An individual can have more than one debt raised against them if they've received social security payments on different occasions.) Of that nearly 445,000, 17 per cent - or nearly 77,500 - were either reduced, waived or written off. About 15,7000 debts were reduced to zero, and a further 27,300 debts were waived or written off. A debt may be waived or written off if a person is deceased or declares bankruptcy. Few people undertake formal appeal The new figures were released in response to questions asked at Senate estimates last month. Greens Senator Rachel Siewert, who asked the Department for the figures, told Hack that only a fraction of people undertook a formal reassessment process. "The numbers of people who have gone through the appeals process are relatively low, and I have strong concerns about that," she said. "This is consistent with the strong anecdotal evidence that I'm getting from people who are saying they're too exhausted by the process and are scared and nervous about challenging further." Senator Siewert said it isn't easy to get a debt waived by Centrelink. Many people would not have kept their wage slips from years ago. The whole system is rigged against the person on income support. Brodie was one of the people who managed to clear his debt entirely. Skip Twitter TweetFireFox NVDA users - To access the following content, press 'M' to enter the iFrame. Rowan McRae @rowanmcrae We are challenging the lawfulness of Centrelink’s robo-debt system. The system is clearly not working, it causes overwhelming hardship, and a Senate Committee has recommended it be suspended. @viclegalaid #rewindrobodebt www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/coalitions-37bn-robodebt-system-should-be-terminated/news-story/7d8a0d7a323f011c96ab86d23042d2dd … 126 2:41 AM - Feb 6, 2019 Twitter Ads info and privacy ‘Terminate’ Robo-debt system The Coalitions 3.7 billion robo-debt system is unlawful and should be terminated because Centrelink has forced welfare recipients to do its work in checking potential overpayments, a legal challenge... "If you can prove you don't owe it then they [Centrelink] will refund any payments. I made a $80 payment to keep the debt collectors quiet, and was refunded my $80 dollars and my $900 debt was wiped when I finally proved [the debt was wrong]," he wrote. "It was so unnecessary though since it was my workplace's fault that I was in the situation." Senator Siewert said the Government should pause the robo-debt system until Centrelink can iron out issues to guarantee that debt notices aren't sent out to people who don't owe anything. She said people who've been slugged with a debt they think is incorrect should appeal. "Seek advice, challenge it. Approach community legal services... as to what they do about it. Don't just take it because it's from the Government as being right." Earlier this year, Hack reported that 2030 have died since receiving a debt notice. www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/more-than-77500-centrelink-robodebts-waived-or-reduced/10948942
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Post by Denis-NFA on Mar 30, 2019 18:28:47 GMT 7
You really have to question the sanity of some 'gubmint' workers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 20:02:33 GMT 7
You really have to question the sanity of some 'gubmint' workers. Both aarticles go to show the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing, that's for sure. Either you've raised a debt, legitimate or otherwise, or you haven't; but to have them stitch you up years down the track when you want to go OS working is plain crazy. If anyone's eligible for the Centrelink compensation she'd have to be on the list, for loss of wages for a start; but once again, probably doesn't even know the mechanism is available. Cheers bear
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Post by Denis-NFA on Mar 31, 2019 0:31:26 GMT 7
You really have to question the sanity of some 'gubmint' workers. Both aarticles go to show the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing, that's for sure. Either you've raised a debt, legitimate or otherwise, or you haven't; but to have them stitch you up years down the track when you want to go OS working is plain crazy. If anyone's eligible for the Centrelink compensation she'd have to be on the list, for loss of wages for a start; but once again, probably doesn't even know the mechanism is available. Cheers bear It is absolutely shocking bearAnd some may wonder why I no longer want to visit Australia! Who knows what they may have hidden up the gubmint sleeve to spring on me.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 12:24:15 GMT 7
Centrelink still issuing incorrect robodebts to meet targets, staff claim Centrelink staff have continued to issue welfare debts they know could be incorrect under pressure to meet performance targets despite the government’s efforts to reform the controversial scheme, employees have alleged.The Department of Human Services “strongly refutes” the claims, which come as new data shows it has ramped up its debt recovery efforts, with the online compliance intervention scheme on track for a record year. Since 2017, the department has been rolling out a series of changes to blunt the harshest aspects of the welfare debt recovery scheme. New processes give people a chance to provide payslips and bank statements before a review is “finalised” and a commonwealth debt is raised. Now, the department will only use its contentious “averaging” method where a person cannot be contacted. Legal centre that helps challenge robodebts fears for future after funding cut But Guardian Australia has been told under-pressure labour hire staff are skirting the process to meet key performance indicators. While there are no target figures for debts raised, teams are expected to complete a set number of reviews each week, current and former staff have claimed. The targets varied, but “that kind of pressure makes people cut corners”, said a former employee who left recently. “It gets to the point where customers will be receiving debts that they may not necessarily owe. It’s more legwork for DHS, for the staff and for the customers to work out what is going on.” He said employees would commonly complete a review using “income averaging” despite managing to contact the welfare recipient, because “the main stat they care about is a finalisation, a completed review”. The insider added: “What people would do is complete the review … and say, ‘You’re going to receive a letter in the mail where you owe X amount of money, you can either pay this, or to appeal the decision, send the paperwork through to see how much you’ve earned.’” Critics of the scheme have argued many people, including the most vulnerable welfare recipients, will simply repay an official debt due to stress and fear. They have also lashed the “income averaging” process, which results in a person’s annual income being spread over 26 fortnights to calculate whether they were overpaid. The process is currently the subject of a court challenge. The Department of Human Services strongly refuted the employees’ claims. “No review is finalised until a person has been given ample opportunity to help resolve the discrepancy, and we strongly refute any claims to the contrary,” said its spokesman Hank Jongen. “Staff working on income reviews are not required to finalise a prescribed number each week. “Like any service delivery organisation, we review performance to meet government priorities, but always put people at the centre of our work.” Meanwhile, new figures show the department has already raised $552.2m in the eight months to 31 March, about 30% more than it raised in the entire 2017-18 financial year. The figure refers to debts the department says is owed, not money that has been paid back. It is also on track to issue well in excess of 200,000 debts in 2018-19, while 173,000 have been referred to an external debt collector. About 113,000 debts – or around 20% of all debts issued – have been waived or reduced since the scheme began in 2016, though the rate has improved markedly since changes to the scheme in 2017. But Jongen said a report by the commonwealth ombudsman “comments positively on the improvements we’ve made to the income review process”. “We have agreed to all the ombudsman’s recommendations and are committed to further improving the customer experience,” he said. In April, Guardian Australia revealed that a court challenge to the program may not be heard by the federal court after the Department of Human Services waived the debt owed by the plaintiff. www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/29/centrelink-still-issuing-incorrect-robodebts-to-meet-targets-staff-claim
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Post by nomadic on May 29, 2019 14:24:11 GMT 7
AS expected you read down and it says as usual "Hank refutes it". This is a 100% guarantee that is the truth. The greatest liar in public service history is now in the running as the greatest liar in human history. growl. Only a little one because if I did one as I feel I may rupture something. And I'd rather rupture Jongen. But good to see a whistleblower or two finally. May they continue.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2019 13:22:02 GMT 7
Human Services claimed people wouldn't pay dents if informed about its IT systemsThe risk management plan, a project progress report, and two open issues summaries for the controversial Centrelink-ATO data matching project must be released within 28 days. The former Department of Human Services (DHS), now rebadged as Services Australia, will be forced to release key risk management documents for its controversial "robo-debt" program following a decision [PDF] by the Australian Information Commissioner, Angelene Falk, on Thursday.The commissioner said the simple assertion that releasing documents would create security risks, or "a substantial adverse effect on the proper and efficient conduct" of an agency is not enough to prevent their release. The Employment Income Matching (EIM) project, which matches Australian Taxation Office (ATO) income data to welfare recipients' Centrelink records, has been widely criticised for generating false claims of overpaid welfare benefits. The false claims have caused anxiety, fear, and humiliation, and reportedly even resulted in suicide. The program has cost AU$375 million so far, but has only recovered a little over AU$326 million in overpayments, while at least 31,000 debt claims have been wiped. The four documents to be released are the result of a freedom of information request by Justin Warren, founder and chief analyst at PivotNine, made in February 2017. The documents have been described by DHS as:a risk management plan for the EIM project, which details potential risks for the project and strategies for mitigation; an 'Open Issues Summary', which details identified issues, the action taken to address each issue, and the subsequent results; a second, similar issues summary document; and an ICT progress report, which details progress against milestones and deliverables. The DHS had claimed, among other things, that releasing risk-related information on its compliance programs and computer systems would create security risks. "This would result in the relevant departmental staff framing their advice in more guarded or careful terms, [maybe] so carefully that the quality and comprehensiveness of the risk assessment may be compromised," the department wrote. The DHS also said that disclosing the risks could prejudice its ability to collect information from income support recipients, as well as potentially make them reluctant to provide information online if they do not believe the computer systems are sufficiently robust and secure. The commissioner disagreed, ruling that the DHS had not shown how the adverse outcomes would, or could reasonably be expected to, occur. "I am not satisfied that the Department has established that disclosure of the information in the documents would result in 'security risks' or 'external threats' regarding the Department's compliance programs and ICT systems as claimed," she wrote. "An agency cannot merely assert that an effect would occur following disclosure." The commissioner also noted that "many of the risks identified in the documents relate to whether the Department was able to appropriately prioritise and execute tasks within the timeframes set for the implementation of the system". "Based on the information before me, it is unclear how such information could be used to exploit the EIM program as the Department contends." The commissioner has ordered the DHS to hand over the documents within 28 days, which is by July 4. These documents are bound to increase the pressure on Human Services and its ministers, already under fire for the poor management of its bungled child support IT project. That project went AU$33.4 million over its budget of AU$103 million, but rather than delivering a full replacement system, it only resulted in a new interface over the legacy mainframe system. RELATED COVERAGEDepartment of Human Services folds into Services Australia The new department is also tasked with government IT procurement. Human Services finally reveals details of bungled child support IT project The Department of Human Services blew AU$135 million on a bad and functionally incomplete system. Now we know just how bad it is. Human Services has now wiped over 31,000 'robo-debts' The department has also recovered a little over AU$326 million through the online compliance intervention program. Human Services is building another chatbot Centrelink is the first target, of course. Human Services has spent AU$375m on 'robo-debt' AU$193 million was spent on the controversial data-matching project in 2017-18. www.zdnet.com/article/human-services-claimed-people-wouldnt-pay-debts-if-informed-about-its-it-systems/
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Post by nomadic on Jun 9, 2019 18:50:28 GMT 7
suicides, misery and running at $millions in losses. How much more we will never know because people paid up when should not have. This is Australia?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 12:43:29 GMT 7
Centrelink robodebt scheme faces second legal challenge Another case prepared after first challenger’s debt waived before court proceedings. The government will face a second legal challenge to its controversial welfare debt recovery scheme after the Department of Human Services wiped the robodebt at the centre of the first case.Guardian Australia revealed in May that the debt of a Melbourne nurse, Madeleine Masterston, had been wiped before proceedings in the federal court. The judge is yet to determine whether the challenge will proceed but the department has argued it no longer has a case to answer. On Wednesday Victoria Legal Aid said it would mount a new challenge on behalf of a 33-year-old local government employee, Deanna Amato, who was sent a $2,700 robodebt over alleged Austudy overpayments. Her $1,700 tax return was garnished by the government over the debt. Centrelink drops woman's robodebt after she mounts court challenge “In this case and the case of our other client Madeleine, we think it’s critical for a court to look at the process Centrelink relies on to decide that people owe them money,” said Rowan McRae, an executive director at Victoria Legal Aid. “These two women are asking the court to decide whether that process complies with the law.” In the face of sustained criticism, the government has taken a number of steps to blunt the harshest aspects of the scheme, including allowing people more time to prove their past income before the department uses a controversial “averaging” tool. The averaging method spreads a person’s annual income gathered from tax office data over 26 fortnights to calculate to whether they were overpaid, which often results in incorrect debts being raised. But employees have told Guardian Australia that under-pressure staff are routinely proceeding straight to the averaging method to raise a debt to try to meet informal team targets. The department denies this. Amid those changes, the government has also ramped up the scheme. It is on track to issue more than 200,000 debts this financial year and has raised about $555m, about 30% more than it did in previous years. After news of the ramp-up, the Greens senator Rachel Siewert called on the new minister, Stuart Robert, to suspend the scheme. “It’s shameful to be putting people on the lowest income through the stress and anxiety of the robodebt scheme, which is fundamentally flawed,” she said late last month. “It’s also far too convenient that the person at the centre of a federal court challenge to robodebt had their debt wiped.” Victoria Legal Aid has argued in court that the department had acted in “bad faith” by wiping the debt and that it held a “forensic advantage” because it could wipe the debt and then say it had no case to answer. A date has not been set for Amato’s case, while Masterston’s will be heard again in August. A Department of Human Services spokesman, Hank Jongen, said: “It would be inappropriate for us to discuss the details of a matter that is presently before the court. “The commonwealth ombudsman, in reviewing our processes, found that it is reasonable and appropriate to ask people to explain discrepancies in data.” www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jun/12/centrelink-robodebt-scheme-faces-second-legal-challenge
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Post by Denis-NFA on Jun 12, 2019 23:44:17 GMT 7
Centrelink robodebt scheme faces second legal challenge
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2019 6:49:20 GMT 7
Centrelink robodebt scheme faces second legal challenge I think it could be the beginning of that thing called, "The Snowball Effect." That'll learn 'em.
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Post by latindancer on Jun 13, 2019 9:45:22 GMT 7
Here is something I am sure Nomadic will enjoy :
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2019 12:38:50 GMT 7
whens robo debt starting for millioniares who have inconsistancies in their tax returns? opps no they are respectable ScoMO supporters and aspirational Australians just trying to get ahead , probably even go to the same church as ScoMO unlike dole bludging green voting , rorting centrelink recipiants
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2019 6:41:17 GMT 7
Issues with robo-debt flagged with the UN
In a submission to the UN, the Human Rights Law Centre has flagged concerns with Centrelink's use of automation for penalties, saying it creates more poverty. Centrelink's controversial robo-debt program is under international scrutiny for potential breaches of human rights.
In a submission to the UN's independent expert on poverty, the Human Rights Law Centre has warned the use of automated penalties risks sending families deeper into poverty. "Computers making decisions about peoples' livelihoods can be the difference between a child having food or going hungry," lawyer Monique Hurley says. "Single mothers with pre-school aged children have been left stranded and have had to turn to charities for food vouchers. "The robo-debt debacle has seen the government bully people into paying debts they do not owe, in an attempt to prioritise efficiency over human rights." However, Department of Human Services general manager Hank Jongen says there is support available if people call the department in distress when they are experiencing hardship and need immediate help. "People don't have to do this alone. They can call us on the number in their letter and speak to a trained staff member who can help them through the review process," Mr Jongen told AAP. The HRLC says the human rights impact of technological developments must be prioritised ahead of efficiency and cost gains. The submission will be used in a report to be presented in October to the UN General Assembly on the human rights impacts of digital technologies in social security systems. The robo-debt system is a computer program that gathers data from government agencies to see if there are discrepancies with what people have reported to Centrelink. A third of the appeals to a federal tribunal over the scheme have resulted in debts being set aside, with thousands of welfare recipients who don't owe money sent automated recovery notices. Before the system was automated 20,000 notices were sent each year, whereas now 20,000 are sent in a week, the HRLC says. "For such technologies to do good, ending inequality must be central to their design," Ms Hurley said. The robo-debt program is currently facing two legal challenges, with a Victorian nurse taking Centrelink to court for its claim she owed $2754 for Austudy she was paid while studying a diploma in 2012. Mr Jongen said the commonwealth ombudsman had reviewed the online compliance system and found it to be comprehensive and in line with the law. As well, the ombudsman had found it is entirely reasonable and appropriate to ask people to explain differences in data, he said. www.sbs.com.au/news/issues-with-robo-debt-flagged-with-the-un
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