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Post by Banjo on Jul 13, 2011 7:44:11 GMT 7
We need to start thinking seriously about what we wish to achieve now that portability appears to be a done deal. We achieved this by a campaign of letters, emails and personal contact to politicians and the media and we need to consider what we can use this type of action on next.
The Disability Support Pension will undergo massive changes in the next twelve months. New applicants will face far more difficult criteria to meet than in the past. Successful recipients will be required to undergo the same type of work assessment that people on NewStart will.
While I support some of this in principal the opportunity for bureaucrats to abuse their new powers will still be there, and at an increased level.
I would like this forum to come out in opposition of all private contracting of Government responsibility in assessing DSP applicants and recipients. It has been clearly shown in the past that many of the contractors involved in NewStart are unqualified and concerned only with personal profits. We must not allow them to get their greedy claws into people who are less capable of coping with them due to disability.
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Post by spaceyone on Jul 13, 2011 8:27:18 GMT 7
Sounds like a good plan to me.
Not only do we need to upgrade the medical knowledge of the people assessing others for DSP, we need for them to be separate from Centrelink itself, and from employment agencies.
Arrangements between Employment Agencies and Job Capacity Assessment Agencies, formal and informal, should be outlawed.
More transparency in the process. JCA reports should be provided to all who apply for DSP. The client should have the chance to argue the JCA to the ODM, before a decision is made.
ARO appeals should be done face to face.
The SSAT should be dissolved, saving Australia $22 million per year. If Centrelink cannot get things right at ARO appeal level, then matters should go to the real tribunal.
The SSAT is corrupt and ineffective. It works for Centrelink, and not the aggrieved. Another reason for its abolishment.
The AAT should exercise its power to punish Centrelink employees who have been found to be deliberately playing with the results of DSP assessment, or any other payment.
We need to obtain agreement from Centrelink that Medical Certificates will be recognised and upheld.
The attitude of bullying all who apply for DSP needs to cease.
Attendance of Disability Employment Agencies, should be voluntary. Those choosing to work, after deciding how many hours they can potentially work, should be free to seek help where help is forthcoming. Meaning, if the Agency cannot line up job interviews for the client, the client should not have to attend.
Just to name a few issues.
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Post by latindancer on Jul 13, 2011 8:34:45 GMT 7
Opposing private contracting of Government responsibility is an important goal, however I don't think that portability appears to be a done deal, by any means. What has been announced is portability for recipients with severe and permanent disability and no future work capacity. From memory, this is an inability to work for at least 8 hours a week. Many of us can work a few hours a week if necessary. I myself cycle in and out of work when in Australia........I HAVE to, to survive financially. It's not a pleasant experience, and I have to force myself to do it, but I have to occasionally do it or go under financially. The battle for portability is far from over for me and people like myself. It would not be difficult for some hard-hearted Centrelink assessor to judge me as able to work 8 hours a week, in which case I can not stay here overseas with the lady I am planning to marry soon....(and even if I could stay here, my benefits would drop by $165/fortnight by dint of the fact I'm married). Having said all this, a private contractor's assessment is more likely to be hard-hearted as they get incentives to knock people back....so I get your point about now opposing this.
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Post by Banjo on Jul 13, 2011 9:04:27 GMT 7
Sounds like a good plan to me. Not only do we need to upgrade the medical knowledge of the people assessing others for DSP, we need for them to be separate from Centrelink itself, and from employment agencies. Arrangements between Employment Agencies and Job Capacity Assessment Agencies, formal and informal, should be outlawed. More transparency in the process. JCA reports should be provided to all who apply for DSP. The client should have the chance to argue the JCA to the ODM, before a decision is made. ARO appeals should be done face to face. The SSAT should be dissolved, saving Australia $22 million per year. If Centrelink cannot get things right at ARO appeal level, then matters should go to the real tribunal. The SSAT is corrupt and ineffective. It works for Centrelink, and not the aggrieved. Another reason for its abolishment. The AAT should exercise its power to punish Centrelink employees who have been found to be deliberately playing with the results of DSP assessment, or any other payment. We need to obtain agreement from Centrelink that Medical Certificates will be recognised and upheld. The attitude of bullying all who apply for DSP needs to cease. Attendance of Disability Employment Agencies, should be voluntary. Those choosing to work, after deciding how many hours they can potentially work, should be free to seek help where help is forthcoming. Meaning, if the Agency cannot line up job interviews for the client, the client should not have to attend. Just to name a few issues. An excellent response, over the next few weeks I'd like these issues discussed individually.
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Post by Banjo on Jul 13, 2011 9:18:46 GMT 7
Opposing private contracting of Government responsibility is an important goal, however I don't think that portability appears to be a done deal, by any means. What has been announced is portability for recipients with severe and permanent disability and no future work capacity. From memory, this is an inability to work for at least 8 hours a week. Many of us can work a few hours a week if necessary. I myself cycle in and out of work when in Australia........I HAVE to, to survive financially. It's not a pleasant experience, and I have to force myself to do it, but I have to occasionally do it or go under financially. The battle for portability is far from over for me and people like myself. It would not be difficult for some hard-hearted Centrelink assessor to judge me as able to work 8 hours a week, in which case I can not stay here overseas with the lady I am planning to marry soon....(and even if I could stay here, my benefits would drop by $165/fortnight by dint of the fact I'm married). Having said all this, a private contractor's assessment is more likely to be hard-hearted as they get incentives to knock people back....so I get your point about now opposing this. My apologies, I never intended to write off the portability issue for all DSP members. What you, and others like you, need to do is analyse your portability needs and discuss them with Centrelink. If you can work when you have to then you need to find out what the portability restrictions on you are. Centrelink may decide that you need reassessing if you are classed as unemployable and keep putting in a few hours. You say you cannot survive without work but thousands do, in fact they have to. If you intend to spend most of the year overseas and work you have to consider the type of work you want to do. At least one member runs a small business through the internet with all income declared. I personally feel unqualified to help you here at the moment, the DSP and other income is outside of my personal experience but we'll certainly include your issues with the rest of our agenda.
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Post by Banker on Jul 13, 2011 9:33:49 GMT 7
Can someone please explain to me How can you be on DSP and work and have portability?
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Post by Banjo on Jul 13, 2011 15:01:08 GMT 7
The Act is quite clear on this, you can work a few hours a week and still receive the DSP as long as Centrelink know about it and can adjust your payment accordingly if necessary. There's no reason that you can decide not to work and travel overseas for 13 weeks.
Under the new legislation, which still has to be worked out, new and some existing DSP recipients will be required to undergo assessment to see if they can work, and for how long and what at, and if they face work related requirements to retain the DSP then they possibly will not be able to leave Australia. We need to find out more on this and hopefully people under the new system will keep us informed.
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Post by panmuraell on Jan 26, 2012 23:40:22 GMT 7
It seems obvious that if you can work you will not get the total freedom of those who can't. That's why they changed it before because people were getting the pension then going overseas and working, Teaching English for example, or running a business. Don't forget the pension is for people who cant support themselves not for anyone who wants it. when they changed the rules in 2000 they let those who were living out stay out which was unfair, while trapping those who were in Australia in a new restricted system no matter how long they had been on it. The changed were retrospective which I consider illegal as all other changes to laws were for new people. I met a young alcoholic in Thailand who was free to live out all the time. he even went to America to work for a while. This sort of abuse is what makes it hard for us all. Like the guys who are married or in de-facto relationships but don't report. Every case of abuse just makes the government and the taxpayers less sympathetic. If you are still able to work maybe you should be satisfied with unlimited 3 month trips?
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Post by chris on Jan 27, 2012 5:44:35 GMT 7
i fully agree with you,now lets face it all most any one can work 8 hrs a week if they really had to.what people should be doing is trying to stop them lowering the amount of hrs you can work in a week,soon it will be 6 then 4 then 2 ,and you no what happens then we will all be on new start ,and wont be able to go any where ,and that is just what they want.it should have stayed up around 30 hrs a week. you no what i mean.
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Post by Banjo on Jan 27, 2012 7:43:12 GMT 7
There are Centrelink Investigators who are convinced that DSP recipients working overseas and I have been accused of it personally. My response was "Do you think I would be putting up with this shit if I could work?"
Basically they are admitting that their assessment process is flawed and the new harsh treatment of people applying for the DSP reflects this.
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Post by spaceyone on Jan 27, 2012 8:53:22 GMT 7
i fully agree with you,now lets face it all most any one can work 8 hrs a week if they really had to.what people should be doing is trying to stop them lowering the amount of hrs you can work in a week,soon it will be 6 then 4 then 2 ,and you no what happens then we will all be on new start ,and wont be able to go any where ,and that is just what they want.it should have stayed up around 30 hrs a week. you no what i mean. The other thing they deliberately fail to consider when assessing us as being able to work 0-8 hours a week, or more, is that even if we can work, we cannot be consistent. What boss is going to put up with having three weeks off sick, from your one day a week job. Will he let you make up for it by doing three days in a row, once your health has bounced back? How many times per year could you get away with that, without disrupting his business? Some of us would have days on end where we can function with a bearable amount of discomfort. Others in the workforce do the same. But during periods of flares of our illnesses, we can go days, weeks or even months, of being at a level of ill health which renders us barely able to leave the house. I took note of the fact that it took 14 months for the RSI in my shoulders to release, and my shoulder muscles finally relaxed, after the last time they were forcing me to work, while I was too sick to do so. I can get around just fine now, until I have to do some lifting, mowing, or cleaning the house. Then I seize up again, muscles and spine, which then creates intense headaches. Even spending as much time on the computer that I do, aggravates my arm, neck and shoulder pain. Having to go out to the shops, or appointments, tires me out for the rest of that day. We are entitled to live without being forced to injure ourselves. LD's attitude of 'I have to work to support myself and wife in Australia even though it will hurt me big time', is common amongst those already on DSP and those who are still stuck on N/S, or in a job. We are not bludgers, but the rorters do give everyone a bad name. It is not the government's decision to mandate our working habits or hours. Modern society exists on the premise that everyone works in a job, and then receives enough money to live. We do not need C/L trying to 'condition us' into knowing that this is the norm. We do know that. We have worked in the past. Our problem is that we cannot, and have no savings, but part of our Australian way of life is to support those in need.
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Post by chris on Jan 27, 2012 9:11:30 GMT 7
again i agree with you fully,BUT c/l have no grey line its just black and white ,and if a doctor or asseser say we can work 8 hrs a week then thats it no payment while overseas after 13 weeks.c/l dont care that we are never going to get a job like that and if we did we would be off work sick all the time ,there rules say if you can work 15 hrs a week then thats it your on new start.simple no grey erea.
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Post by fonze on Mar 5, 2015 19:15:51 GMT 7
Banjo had a good idea, to address the issues that were put up individually. My first gripe is getting assessments from people who identify themselves as medical or allied health professionals. My last assessment was done by an exercise physiologist, who had never heard of the term "Laminectomy" and required help to spell it. The previous one was done by a social worker who had no medical knowledge and referred notes of the meeting to a physio. that could be issue #1 why are unqualified people doing medical asessments.
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Post by fonze on Mar 5, 2015 19:20:47 GMT 7
I forgot about Banjo first post, I was forced to see one of these employment providers and the results training = 0 employment assistance = 0 I dont know what they charge the goverment but if it is more than $0.00 we as taxpayers are being ripped off.
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Post by Banjo on Mar 5, 2015 20:36:41 GMT 7
A lot of water gone under the bridge since this topic started fonze, it's nearly 4 years old.
We didn't do a bad job of predicting what was going to happen though.
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