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Post by gypsy on May 20, 2017 15:04:53 GMT 7
Hi, has anyone one had a phone interview with AAT 1? Just wondering what kind of questions were asked. Has anyone had any luck with multiple conditions?
I have been trying to get Legal Help but living in a rural area this is almost impossible, SSRV helped me at the start, I think they got sick of me calling cause after my ARO failed one of their lawyers told me "you won't get your pension back now", haven't spoken to them since. Been getting a bit of help from a lawyer at VLA, she has just been giving me some advice but hasn't actually taken on my case - I have to do Tier 1 phone call on my own - she says I have a 50/50 chance, she only works 3 days a week and is very busy. Spoke to another VLA person from Warrnambool and she told me that VLA decided they would take on Tier 2 cases as they are having better results from them. I just wanted someone to look over my stuff - but I keep getting run over with every step I take.
I have been on DSP since 2001, and have a form that I believe is a manifest form from 2003, but I believe this is no longer valid.
I have not heard from C'Link since 2003, my first JCA assessment - didn't know about new impairment tables or what I was walking into. Well my JCA Report, ARO Report who told me she was sending my stuff to one of their Doctors at the Health Advisory Unit and I thought at last sense would prevail with a Doctor ringing my Doctors - well no - they HAU person was an Occupational Therapist - All reports were misquoted even my doctors have been misquoted.
The reason I got into this mess was because some 'friend' who is no longer a friend, put in anonymous call to C'Link to say I was living with a partner - which I am not ant that I am doing more than my disability allows - a pretty wide open statement - so they decided I should have a review. this I believed was all sorted out. But after sending my specialist a copy of the HAU, not only had he been misquoted but she asked him if he knew about 'the man in my house' he told her she would have to ask me. I feel she has overstepped her job description. |
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Post by murphy on May 20, 2017 15:38:12 GMT 7
Welcome, gypsy.
Manifest grants are not reviewed.
Your best course of action is to collect together all of your medical evidence, including a report from your specialist(s), asking him/her to clarify any errors in relation to his/her statements. Medical evidence from up to 13 weeks after the decision to cancel will be considered. All medical evidence prior to the decision will be considered if you submit it. Sometimes you can get medical reports written after the 13 weeks in, as long as they focus on your impairment(s) as at the date of cancellation.
I think the living with a partner issue is something you don't need to focus on at this point. (Sounds like a fishing expedition to see if maybe you owe them money because they suspect you were not single.) Winning back your DSP is what is critical, and your best chance is by supplying medical evidence which shows how your impairment(s) warrant 20 points on the Tables.
Talk to your treating practitioners about letters/reports/records that might support your appeal.
Best wishes.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2017 15:58:50 GMT 7
Welcome to the forum gypsy!
Other members have much more experience with AAT Appeals than myself, though 50/50 for a level 1 sounds about right. And the reason level 2 is having better success is in my personal opinion, that lawyers are getting involved and clients have had a better chance to get their house in order, with Centrelink folding before 2nd appeal in some cases.
Murphy's advice is spot on and you appear to have inadvertently answered my question in another thread re start date of JCA's.
All the best with the phone call and further support is always available here. Cheers bear
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Post by tasjo on May 20, 2017 16:20:59 GMT 7
Hi Gypsy,
I did a t1 AAT Appeal this year and while I wasnt successful am happy to help in any way I can.
It was by phone and personally I found the process much less stressful than the JCA or ARO as the member appeared to take more notice of my doctors reports and letters than either the JCA or ARO.
Unfortunately, it appears that the AAT member incorrectly interpreted the criteria for one of the Tables and as such I am at a 2nd appeal.
I had a couple of appointmemts with Welfare Rights but they essentially helped me to clarify what I needed to ask my doctors to provide.
One thing I would advise for the review is to cover as many possibilities as possible, think about the 'what ifs' ie not getting 20 points on 1 table. If you have participated and/or received support from a Disability Employment Service then ask them for an exemption so that criteria is covered. Also get any medical reports or letters to refer to the examples Clink use in the Guidelines.
Since my l1 Appeal was unsuccessful I have had support from Disability Advocacy, and I think this has helped.
i found the AAT very helpful as well
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Post by murphy on May 20, 2017 16:24:58 GMT 7
Hi Gypsy, I did a t1 AAT Appeal this year and while I wasnt successful am happy to help in any way I can. It was by phone and personally I found the process much less stressful than the JCA or ARO as the member appeared to take more notice of my doctors reports and letters than either the JCA or ARO. Unfortunately, it appears that the AAT member incorrectly interpreted the criteria for one of the Tables and as such I am at a 2nd appeal. I had a couple of appointmemts with Welfare Rights but they essentially helped me to clarify what I needed to ask my doctors to provide. One thing I would advise for the review is to cover as many possibilities as possible, think about the 'what ifs' ie not getting 20 points on 1 table. If you have participated and/or received support from a Disability Employment Service then ask them for an exemption so that criteria is covered. Also get any medical reports or letters to refer to the examples Clink use in the Guidelines. Since my l1 Appeal was unsuccessful I have had support from Disability Advocacy, and I think this has helped. i found the AAT very helpful as well A 2001 grant does not need to worry about PoS (or 20 points on one Table to avoid the PoS requirement). It will only become relevant if she needs to reapply for DSP. |
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Post by tasjo on May 20, 2017 18:15:22 GMT 7
Thats good to know about the PoS... I'm glad Gypsy wont have to go through that circus.
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Post by gypsy on May 21, 2017 9:52:41 GMT 7
Hi Everyone, thank you for your warm welcome to the forum and a huge thank you for your replies, advice and support. It has certainly felt like a very lonely world until finding this forum, whilst its good, its sad to see so many going through hell to keep a pension that was granted to them. Whilst waiting for this appeal, I have felt like I am sitting on 'death row', like a lamb going to slaughter, though I suppose a lot of you have felt the same.
Another place I am stuck is - multiple conditions causing what they are calling 'double dipping', under the old tables I was given 20 points under miscellaneous, under the new tables they have put me under Table 4 and have put two conditions together. In 1985 I had my left unfunctioning kidney removed and reimplantion of the right uterer (excuse spelling), I have 5 surgical clips in my left side which cause pain and discomfort and the scar goes around to where your side hits the back of a chair, the front cut has caused muscle abdominal wall damage, the oncologist in his report has written that it is reasonable to have back pain. In 1997, I had a work place injury, my lower back, I have a tear in my disc l4/5 right side that will never heal and is inoperable and after getting an up to date MRI, they have found a growth/lesion on my l4/5 left side growing on the nerve, also inoperable. C'link have decided to put the two together and saying that only one can be given points - hence double dipping. They are not the same, but they didn't use table 1 for chronic pain and fatigue. The JCA, said she didn't know which basket I would fit into - so she put them together with only the kidney getting points.
Has anyone had any luck with multiple conditions and getting them separated?
I reckon by the end of all of this, we on this forum would make and will probably be better qualified Social Security Lawyers!!! |
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Post by tasjo on May 21, 2017 10:28:08 GMT 7
I had a similar experience with the JCA...
I have Rheumatoid Arthritis and Fibromyalgia and was only given 15 points across all the tables by the JCA...
The ARO supported the decision but the AAT increased it to 25. I was allocated points on Tables that the JCA refused due to 'double dipping'.
What I found helped at the AAT was to use examples - and have medical support - for things that could not be confused.
For example - chronic pain and fatigue does not prevent me from kneeling or climbing stairs, but I cannot kneel or climb stairs due to the damage in my knees. It does not prevent me opening cans and bottles, the damage to my hands does.
It can be difficult if you are talking about being able to walk a particular distance, to know whether it is fatigue or a lower limb impairment.
i also argued - successfully had it not been for the AAT misinterpreting the table - that the combined fatigue and pain from 2 chronic conditions increased my impairment points.
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Post by murphy on May 21, 2017 12:22:33 GMT 7
I have seen a quack write a report, systematically going through each impairment Table, showing how two or more conditions cause a common impairment, while one condition causes multiple impairments, itemising it to establish no double-dipping. The way to untangle multiple problems was to go by impairment, showing which conditions caused common impairments and which conditions caused multiple impairments. It is, I think, the only way to clearly show to a JCA that you are not double-dipping. JCAs are, in my view, not clever enough or interested enough to untangle how the Tables work in relation to multiple impairments/conditions.
So, the document might look like this. You can see how RA causes a loss of function across three tables. You can also see how a degenerated spine causes a common impairment along with the RA. Fibromyalgia sits under Table 1 by itself in this case, because the impact of the RA and degenerated spine on ability to walk distances have already been measured in Table 3. It's a fine line, in my view, and one could argue that the cumulative effect of all the conditions including the Fibromyalgia warrant a rating under Table 1, but if Fibro can attract points sufficiently on its own under Table 1, there's not much point having an argument with Satan.
Drawing up a Table (that's how this was supposed to look) can help your medicos untangle your impairments and show clearly how a condition can cause multiple impairments, or two or more conditions can cause a common impairment.
Loss of function Caused by Points/Descriptors
Spinal function (Table 4) Degenerative disc disease
Degenerated facet joints
Rheumatoid arthritis (affecting spine) 5
The person has some difficulty in …
(b) bending to knee level and straightening up again without difficulty
Upper limb function (Table 2) Rheumatoid arthritis (shoulders, hands) 10
(1) The person has difficulty with most of the following:
(a) picking up a 1 litre carton full of liquid
(b) picking up a light but bulky object requiring the use of two hands together
…
(d) doing up buttons or tying shoelaces
…
(e) unscrewing the lid on a soft-drink bottle
Lower limb function (Table 3) Rheumatoid arthritis (hips, knees, feet)
Degenerative disc disease (with lumbar
radiculopathy to left leg) 10
(1) At least one of the following applies:
(a) the person is unable to walk far outside their home and needs to drive or get other transport to local shops or community facilities
Physical Exertion and stamina Fibromyalgia (no other table sufficiently
(Table 1) captures the impairment)
10
The person experiences frequent symptoms of fatigue when performing day to day activities around the home and community and, due to these symptoms, the person:
(i) is unable to walk…far outside the home and needs to drive or get other transport to local shops or community facilities; AND
(ii) has difficulty performing day to day household activities (e.g. changing sheets on a bed or sweeping paths)
Edit: Really sorry about the formatting. I can't seem to just insert a table here and it looks lined up until I post it.
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Post by gypsy on May 21, 2017 13:05:29 GMT 7
Thank you, Tasjo and Murphy, for your replies.
I will use both your suggestions and will start by making up my own list to untangle the conditions so I can take to my GP and see if I can get him to write me a letter (not sure if he will, but will try) and have them ready to use to put to the AAT.
I think the hardest part of this is trying to take the emotion and the personal attack out of it.
Once again Thank You. |
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Post by Banjo on May 21, 2017 13:25:06 GMT 7
If you keep in mind that they don't do compassionate or understanding and consider every customer a potential thief you learn to cope a bit better.
It's not personal.
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Post by tasjo on May 21, 2017 13:47:57 GMT 7
Thank you, Tasjo and Murphy, for your replies.
I will use both your suggestions and will start by making up my own list to untangle the conditions so I can take to my GP and see if I can get him to write me a letter (not sure if he will, but will try) and have them ready to use to put to the AAT.
I think the hardest part of this is trying to take the emotion and the personal attack out of it.
Once again Thank You. Advocacy and welfare rights were both able to assist with how to format letters for my GP to reply to... I will try and find the letter and post it on the forum without personal details later tonight. |
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Post by tasjo on May 21, 2017 13:50:02 GMT 7
The other thing I meant to say as well was not to assume that because CLink are aware of something that it will be provided to the AAT.
I assumed that I wasnt asked whether I can use pulic transport because I was receiving Mobility Allowance. Because the question wasnt asked the JCA assumed I could. Same with light household duties, I assumed because I have a carer that I didnt need to verify that.
It is worth going through the Tables snd their ratings and asking your GP to verify the details.
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Post by murphy on May 21, 2017 14:47:56 GMT 7
Yikes, I just saw my Table in mobile format. Please look at it from a PC/standard view. It makes much more sense that way.
Tasjo, it appears sometimes not even all the medical reports make it over. The amount of checking the claimant, someone who is unwell, must do is ridiculous.
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Post by krystal on May 21, 2017 16:33:32 GMT 7
Welcome Gypsy
Because you have so many different tables to unfold, what I would suggest is writing the letter yourself and emailing it your GP so he/she just has to read it/modify it/print it out and then sign it.
Most doctors are happy to read and sign, not a lot of doctors like writing the letter.
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The format Murphy has supplied would be excellent but I would include diagnosed date and specialist name as well.
That way if the AAT need to refer to the specialist report backing up what the letter says, they know which specialist report they need to read. This way they can't claim that there is no specialist letter/report backing up what is in the GP letter.
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