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Post by Banjo on Jun 22, 2018 10:37:27 GMT 7
I saw, elsewhere, a claim that someone had been told by Centrelink, both his local office and IS that the 2 year clock is reset to zero if the country is left before the 2 years is up.
I emailed Senator Siewert's office and recieved this reply. (In less than a week!) ......................................................................................
Hi Banjo,
The below outlines my understanding in regards to pension portability, and whether the two-year waiting period for recently returned residents is reset if the pensioner travels overseas for any reason.
The short answer is no, the two-year period would not be reset to zero if a pensioner has a temporary overseas absence from Australia during this period.
The two-year waiting period for people who return to Australia from living overseas and claim a pension is at section 1220 of the Social Security 1991. The Guide to Social Security Law explains the provision:
When someone, who was formerly an Australian resident, returns to Australia and again becomes an Australian resident and subsequently is granted a pension under the SSAct section 43(1), or transferred to Age under the SS(Admin)Act section 12, on or after 20 September 2000, that pension is not payable outside Australia if the recipient leaves Australia within 2 years of again becoming an Australian resident.
Within the two year period it is still possible for a person covered by this provision to leave Australia temporarily and this absence will not affect their status as residing in Australia. The temporary absence must be temporary. This is not always a straightforward thing to determine, so the definition of temporary absence is set out at length in the Guide (2.2.4.30).
A person’s payment may be suspended for the period of the temporary overseas absence (the Act states that a pension is not payable to a person subject to the two-year period during any period they are outside Australia) but they do not have to reclaim it upon returning (i.e. the suspension will be lifted). The Guide states:
A short absence from Australia (as long as the person is still classed as an Australian resident) should not impact on the end date of this 24 month residence period (i.e. the absence still counts towards the person's 24 month residence period).
These rules apply to people who are returning from a country with which Australia does not have an International Social Security Agreement. Where such agreements apply different rules are included in each agreement. For further information on those agreements in general see section 10 of the Guide which also sets out the conditions of each agreement.
I am unsure of why Centrelink has advised that it would be reset, would be very happy to follow up in regards to particular people as the legislation seems very clear that you can temporarily leave without it affecting your waiting period.
I have also put in a generic question about this to our Centrelink liaison, but they sometimes won’t give me any info if it is not tied to an individual, will let you know if I get anything back that is useful.
Cheers,
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Post by Banjo on Jun 22, 2018 10:41:02 GMT 7
Just checked, that was actually 3 days from my first contact.
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Post by itsmylife08 on Jun 22, 2018 13:54:18 GMT 7
What is classified as a short absence?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 15:13:12 GMT 7
I've said it elsewhere; it really is a dog's breakfast! It appears a temporary absence can be anything up to three years by their own definition! So therefore the two year ban doesn't stack up because you have to have been a permanent resident to achieve your payment. And going on the recent AAT decision, if you say Australia is your home there's not a lot anyone can do to prove otherwise. At least not non agreement countries there's not. 'Cos, "We are all just visitors here." Cheers bear Guide to Social Security Law Version 1.245 - Released 1 June 2018
2.2.4.30 Verifying Temporary Absences Summary This topic describes verification of temporary absences including:
general provisions, length of temporary absence, reason for temporary absence, connections with Australia (1.1.A.320), and connections with another country. Policy reference: SS Guide 3.1.1 Residence Requirements General provisionsA person outside Australia may still be regarded as an Australian resident for some payments. A person who is temporarily absent, rather than permanently residing outside Australia, must demonstrate a continued commitment to Australia as their home.
The following factors must be considered: length of absence, AND reason for absence. Act reference: SSAct section 7(2) An Australian resident is a person who:…, section 7(3) Residing in Australia Length of temporary absenceThe person must intend to return to Australia within a specific period. An absence of 12 months or less would usually be accepted as temporary. However, a period of up to 3 years absence should be regarded as an upper limit UNLESS there are exceptional circumstances delaying the person's return (e.g. medical treatment; acute family crisis; sudden ill health. See 7.1.2.10 and 7.1.2.20). Reason for temporary absenceThe purpose of an overseas visit may indicate whether it is of a temporary nature. The reason should be consistent with the intended length of the absence. The person must demonstrate an intention to return to Australia at the end of their stay.
Example: This may be accepted where a person is posted overseas for a specified period by their employer or an educational institution. Connections with AustraliaConsideration should also be given to the person's continuing ties to Australia. Factors that indicate a person's continuing ties with Australia are:retention of property such as: a home, other real estate, furniture, and other belongings in Australia, savings maintained with Australian financial institutions, family remaining in Australia, such as immediate and extended family, length of residence in Australia before departure, and continued connections with an Australian employer. Act reference: SSAct section 7(3) Residing in Australia Connections with another countryLooking at the person's commitment to their overseas home may help to decide if a person is living permanently outside Australia and therefore can no longer be considered an Australian resident. Factors that indicate that a person is no longer permanently residing in Australia because of ties with a country of residence overseas are:purchase of a home overseas, or entry into a long term lease arrangement, family members who are residing permanently overseas, periods of residence overseas, commencement of employment overseas and the length of the contract, enrolment of children in educational institutions, if inconsistent with the intended period of absence, commitment to community activities at an overseas residence, investment in overseas financial institutions or enterprises, or electoral enrolment. guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/2/2/4/30
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Post by Banjo on Jun 22, 2018 15:17:02 GMT 7
What is classified as a short absence? I'm surprised you have to ask after all these years of putting up with non-specific words like that. Buddha forbid that they say four weeks or six weeks or anything specific.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 17:04:08 GMT 7
I thought this page which explains "Verification" specifically an all manner of situations may be very helpful. I've had a quick look at 2.2.4.10 Verifying Residence/Citizenship & 2.2.4.20 Verifying that a Person Resides in Australia. Cheers bear Guide to Social Security Law Version 1.245 - Released 1 June 2018
Keyword: verification2.2.1.10 General Procedures for Confirming & Verifying Identity 2.2.2 Verifying Personal Details 2.2.3 Verifying Financial Information 2.2.4.10 Verifying Residence/Citizenship 2.2.4.20 Verifying that a Person Resides in Australia 2.2.4.30 Verifying Temporary Absences 2.2.4.40 Verifying International Agreements 2.2.4.50 Verifying Newly Arrived Resident's Waiting Period 2.2.5 Verifying Membership of a Couple 2.2.5.20 Determining Living Separately & Apart 2.2.5.30 Determining Separation Under One Roof 2.2.5.60 Determining an Illness Separated Couple 2.2.5.70 Determining a Respite Care Couple 2.2.5.80 Determining Treatment of Claimant/Recipient with Partner in Gaol - General Provisions 2.2.6 Verifying a Death 2.2.7 Newstart & Youth Allowance Verification 2.2.8 Other Labour Market & Older Students Verification 2.2.9 Retirement & Widows Verification 2.2.10.10 Verification for PP 2.2.10.20 Verification for DOP 2.2.11 Disability & Carer Verification 2.2.12 Special Payments Verification 2.2.13.10 Supplementary Benefits - Verification Required 2.2.13.20 RA - Verification Required 2.2.14.20 Verification for EMEP 3.8.1.40 Notification, Verification & Recipient Obligations for RA 3.15.4.110 Verification of Requirement for Medical Equipment or Additional Heating or Cooling (EMEP) 3.15.4.120 Role of Medical Practitioners (EMEP) 6.3.9 Employment Income Confirmation 9.1.1 Checking Visas guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/2/2/4/10
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Post by itsmylife08 on Jun 22, 2018 19:19:08 GMT 7
Good find bear I'm on the cusp at the moment, I note with interest that they mention Electoral enrolment albeit, in another country, one would imagine the same would apply in Australia for resident purposes I've covered myself in that regards. Plus I'll be bringing back another little Aussie with me my baby daughter. OMG the things we do for our beloved country
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 20:05:27 GMT 7
If we've informed the AEC (Australian Electoral Commission) we are overseas; I have, and we do our best to vote, and the tryanny of distance & isolation not to great to vote; I'd suggest we are Aussies through & through, especially if we aren't struck off for non-compliance. I'd suggest in those circumstances, Centrelink can suck eggs! Cheers bear
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Post by itsmylife08 on Jun 22, 2018 22:53:07 GMT 7
Well mate that's exactly what I have done at the last election for obvious reasons. OMG I received the voting papers it was like a dunny roll massive. The missus couldn't get over it lol Stuff them for me Australia is always home
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Post by nomadic on Jun 23, 2018 7:20:59 GMT 7
I'm on the roll but not voted in over 20 years now and never tried to. I think disabled may be exempt if they don't want to because never had a fine.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 9:16:07 GMT 7
They told me failure to vote will see you struck off, necessitating re-enrollment upon return to Oz. I suggest it's another residency trick. Get struck off for not voting, no longer a resident. Re-enrollment gives them a sense of permanence for you and your situation. Cheers bear. P.S. nomadic I'd be flabbergasted if you walked into a polling station in your registered electorate and were still on the roll!
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Post by nomadic on Jun 23, 2018 11:27:31 GMT 7
i registered again on one of my forced trips around 2008 and was still on in 2012 at least. will try and check.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 11:50:28 GMT 7
If you are enrolled you are liable to be fined i have advised them that i will living overseas I am now exempt taken of the Roll No problem for me I thought it out when i left Oz
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Post by itsmylife08 on Jun 23, 2018 12:32:08 GMT 7
They told me failure to vote will see you struck off, necessitating re-enrollment upon return to Oz. I suggest it's another residency trick. Get struck off for not voting, no longer a resident. Re-enrollment gives them a sense of permanence for you and your situation. Cheers bear. P.S. nomadic I'd be flabbergasted if you walked into a polling station in your registered electorate and were still on the roll! Getting struck off is one thing getting fined for not voting is another which is what happened to me in good old Briz Vegas some years ago. While I was in the process of updating my details with the AEC, yes it's true while doing the right thing as I usually try to do, they claimed that I had failed to vote in a previous election and issued me with a fine for around $150 Naturally, I contested this and was informed that I would have to provide proof by way of a statutory declaration to have the fine dismissed. Being brutally honest as I tend to be, I'm not so sure it's always a good thing God bless Itsa
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Post by Banjo on Jun 27, 2018 9:51:31 GMT 7
A follow up email from Senator Seiwert's office.
I have heard back from Centrelink, they can’t give me an answer based on the generic question, but please let people know that they can contact our office with their details and we will be able to enquire on their behalf if they have concerns.
My contact there is going on maternity leave and has referred us here if we want to contact the Senator's office.
Lucy.Cowcher-Guthrie@aph.gov.au
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