Over 2000 people died after receiving robo-debt notice.

[latindancer]

Monday 18 February 2019 1:32pm


More than 2030 people died after receiving a Centrelink debt notice, also known as robo-debt, according to new data released by the Department of Human Services.

Of those, 429 - roughly one-fifth - were aged under 35. The figures cover a period from July 2016 to October 2018.

To give you a comparison, there were 3139 deaths of people aged between 15 and 35 in 2016 overall, according to the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare.

While the department does not collect data on the cause for death in these cases, nearly a third - 663 people - were classified as "vulnerable", which means they had complex needs like mental illness, drug use or were victims of domestic violence.

Greens Senator Rachel Siewert, who asked the Department for the information, told Hack that there could be more people with vulnerabilities than what is reflected in the official stats.

"Because of the way the system works at the moment, people don't feel confident or don't feel safe or trust the person that they're reporting to to flag that they feel vulnerable, or flag that they might have poor mental health at the time," she said.

Senator Siewert also said evidence from a Senate inquiry into the system found that getting a debt notice when you've done nothing wrong can bring on depression or anxiety.

"People talk about feeling stressed and anxious through the system, feeling humiliated and they get depressed."

"That sets alarm bells for me, the high proportion of people with vulnerabilities," she said.

This should be ringing alarm bells for the Government in terms of further investigation."

The vast majority of people who died were still receiving Centrelink payments at the time of their deaths. Responsibility for Centrelink lies with the Department of Human Services.

More than 500 people who died were receiving Newstart payments, and a further 520 were on the Disability Support Pension.

Men were twice as likely to die than women.

Minister says there's no link

A spokesperson for Human Services Minister, Michael Keenan, told Hack the automatic debt notice process is "reasonable, lawful and fair".

They said the department had sent out 900,000 discrepancy notices - that is, a letter asking the welfare recipient to explain why the info they've given doesn't match what the department has. That doesn't always lead to a formal debt notice because the recipients of the letter can provide additional information that clears the discrepancy.

"Any suggestion that the Department of Human Services' debt recovery efforts have contributed to customer deaths is simply not supported by the facts or statistics," the spokesperson said.

"The department sent more than 900,000 debt letters to individuals during the period 1 July 2016 to 31 October 2018. A total of 2030 of those individuals died during the same period, which represents 0.21 per cent."

This was more than ten times lower than the overall death rate for all of the department's customers during the same period, which was 3.64 per cent."

It's important to note here that the figures provided by the spokesperson include deaths of people who receive a pension payment, which by definition puts them in the older age bracket.

"The number of days that elapsed between customers receiving a debt letter and their death was 222 days, or almost eight months. Any number of factors in an individual's life could have contributed to their death during such an extended period and it would be foolhardy to draw a link to one particular cause without evidence to support such a claim," the spokesperson said.

"Debt recovery remains an important priority for the Coalition Government and where people have been overpaid, they will be required to pay the money back. Since 1 July 2016, this Government has achieved savings of $2.9 billion through cracking down on welfare fraud and non-compliance."

Senator Siewert will seek further information from the department. She wants answers to clarify how, if at all, the robo-debt system exacerbates stress and anxiety.

"I find it quite disturbing, and it indicates to me that the department should investigate further and I'll be chasing this up during Senate estimates this week," Senator Siewert said.
What is robo-debt?

In 2016, Centrelink started using a computer system to match up tax records with welfare payments, to see if there were any discrepancies.

The old non-automated system generated 20,000 letters to people who had received Centrelink payments a year. But in the early days of the new system, that jumped to 20,000 letters a week.
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Centrelink has raised nearly 410,000 debt notices since the automated system began in July 2016, but 70,000 have been written off or reduced already.

"Robodebt has unleashed thousands of debt notices in error to parents, people with disabilities, carers, students and people seeking paid work, resulting in people slapped with Centrelink debts they do not owe or debts higher than they owe," ACOSS CEO Dr Cassandra Goldie said.

"It has been a devastating abuse of government power that has caused extensive harm, particularly among people who are the most vulnerable in our community."

The family of 28-year old Melbourne musician Rhys Cauzzo told The Saturday Paper that "aggressive" payment demands from a debt-collection agency on behalf of Centrelink contributed to his suicide.

"People with severe depression don't handle financial pressure. And these numbers didn't make sense. He was always anal about keeping financial records," Rhys' mother, Jenny Miller, said.

Because it was computer-generated, Hack started hearing stories of how people were told they owed thousands of dollars due to admin errors.

Like hospitality worker Laura, who was told she owed $24,000 - basically her annual income.
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" physically sick and I lost my shit straight away."

Laura told Hack getting the debt notice was stressful and impacted her mental health.

"I've suffered from depression for a very, very long time and especially at the end of last year when I first got this debt I was already not feeling well because of other things, so I ended up not being at work for a month," she said.

"No one's listening... I'm basically being called a fraud and a liar and that I don't matter."

"It straight away said I was guilty, and a year later [I'm still trying] to prove I'm not guilty," Laura said.

"That's a year's worth of my life of stress and struggle that I shouldn't have had to deal with... It's a joke."


www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/2030-people-have-died-after-receiving-centrelink-robodebt-notice/10821272?fbclid=IwAR3PS41qEvvAxF_pPCGHDBNaHr2wp5G1kjCXbeYxJvhi1FekG441r0yQBts

[itsmylife08]

Sadly I did make mention about all of this in my 2014 report to the Senate committee on DSP when they were cutting back on O/S travel etc, plus lots of other cuts at the time which I'm sure most of you would remember.

What is wrong with them I mean if I can see it coming a mile away so would blind Freddie. Maybe it's time for more submissions???

[Deleted]

The liberals probably want the gold fillings in their teeth and the  boots from their feet before they are buried

[latindancer]

It's horrifying that it may have caused even one death. And actual case histories of the deceased must be looked into....in detail.....before Centrelink or the Human Services minister can deny there was any link.

[nomadic]

Yes itsa you like me are ahead of your time. I called them Nazi's a long time ago and these deaths prove us both correct. Blind, deaf and dumb Freddie even knew these things and Keenan fiddles numbers to refute it. And I just saw that the libs have clawed back in the polls after the recent decent law was passed on the refugee's medivac. Shows what a disgusting lot many Australians really are when they let fear rule over decency. They fear refugees and the disabled. Better to let them die than live happily in Australia.

[Deleted]

@&+*€π÷®%€¥¢

[nomadic]

no swearing on this forum. yet again blind Freddy can see it.

[Deleted]

It was meant to be "left speechless", but apparently you have to write something down!

[nomadic]

ok, yes, deaf nomadic couldn't hear a thing.

[Banjo]

Robodebt scheme costs government almost as much as it recovers

At least $400m spent, with only $500m repaid by welfare recipients, Senate hearing told

The government has spent at least $400m to recover $500m from welfare recipients through the controversial robodebt scheme, a Senate estimates hearing has been told.

Under questioning by the Labor senator Murray Watt on Thursday night, department officials said the scheme had “raised” about $1.5bn in debts from welfare recipients since it was rolled out.

But only about $5oom had actually been repaid. Another $500m was the subject of a payment arrangement while the remaining money was “unconfirmed” and could be subject to an appeal, the Department of Human Services (DHS) said.

On Thursday night, Watt questioned the point of the scheme when the government only had “$100m to show for it”.

“I’m just concerned there’s been a litany of terrible stories,” he said. “So far, to have only recovered $100m. Does that meet your expectations?”

The department spent $375m on the robodebt scheme between 2015-16 and 2017-18, while about $200m in administrative costs was budgeted for the current financial year, officials said. In total, it meant the scheme would have cost at least $400m to the end of 2018, Watt said.

The running costs have increased each year as the department has been forced to redesign the program amid public criticism.

The DHS secretary, Renee Leon, said: “In the most recent budget we readjusted the costs and the saves because the original measure was costed on the assumption that the great bulk of the work would be done online without staff involvement.”

“We have now applied more staff support and involvement to it.”

Over the next four years, the government forecasts it will recover about $4bn from the robodebt scheme, officials said.

Leon said it was common that social security debts were never fully repaid because customers were on low incomes.

“It’s not a reason to allow the integrity of the welfare program to deteriorate because our customers can’t necessarily repay what they owe immediately,” she said.

Leon said the federal budget did not “run on a cash basis”, which means the debts the government believes it is owed are included in the budget balance even if the money may never be recouped.

The figures come as the program faces a legal challenge from Victoria Legal Aid, which argues the way Centrelink calculates a debt is unlawful. More than 400,000 debts have now been initiated over two years. People are asked to provide evidence to disprove the debt, which is calculated using income-matching from a person’s tax return.

Officials also faced a grilling about how they had responded to figures that showed 2,030 people had died after they were sent a debt notice, including 812 who were considered vulnerable by Centrelink. About one in five were under the age of 35.

The Greens senator Rachel Siewert stressed that she was not suggesting a “causation” between the letters and the deaths.

But it was vital the department investigate the figures “so there can be some analysis done on whether there is a level of association”, she said.

“It seems to me the department is in denial about the stress and anxiety that robodebt has caused,” Siewert said.

Leon said the figures did not suggest there was “an elevated death rate” when compared with the total cohort of welfare recipients.

“It’s not to say we’re not troubled that people die,” she said.

Linking the debt letters to suicide was a “a dangerous path to go down”, she said, because vulnerable people may be “triggered by that assertion”.

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/feb/22/robodebt-scheme-costs-government-almost-as-much-as-it-recovers?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlBVVMtMTkwMjIy&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayAUS&CMP=GTAU_email

[tasjo]

is it just me that thinks the maths is skewed as well as everything else?

The department spent $375m on the robodebt scheme between 2015-16 and 2017-18, while about $200m in administrative costs was budgeted for the current financial year, officials said. In total, it meant the scheme would have cost at least $400m to the end of 2018.

$375m + $100m (half of the $200m in the current financial year)= $475m to recover $500m... hmmmm

[Deleted]

Feb 22, 2019 18:21:39 GMT 7 tasjo said:

is it just me that thinks the maths is skewed as well as everything else?

The department spent $375m on the robodebt scheme between 2015-16 and 2017-18, while about $200m in administrative costs was budgeted for the current financial year, officials said. In total, it meant the scheme would have cost at least $400m to the end of 2018.

$375m + $100m (half of the $200m in the current financial year)= $475m to recover $500m... hmmmm

No it's not just you tasjo. It's the way of neo-liberal trickle down economic policies. Even if it cost them money to retrieve less they'd be happy; just to prove a point. It's the "We do it because we can." mentality. Cheers bear

[nomadic]

But the question always comes to mind even if the debts are there? How did they happen in the first place. Why were people paid money they were not entitled to? As always Centrelink incompetence can be the only reason and this ends up in suicides en mass. Borders on murder even. If this is not in the disabled R.C. i will growl for sure.

[tasjo]

Feb 23, 2019 11:31:59 GMT 7 nomadic said:

But the question always comes to mind even if the debts are there? How did they happen in the first place. Why were people paid money they were not entitled to? As always Centrelink incompetence can be the only reason and this ends up in suicides en mass. Borders on murder even. If this is not in the disabled R.C. i will growl for sure.

I know of a reasonable number of people who for a considerable time declared their after tax rather than before tax income (in spite of being told this was incorrect)... Their reasoning being it 'wasnt fair'...
These I don't have a lot of sympathy for but when income is averaged regardless of when earned (particularly for students who work seasonal jobs) and often don't get much guidance on how to claim and report there should be more detailed investigation before landing them with a debt

[nomadic]

another story on robo debt.

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/05/centrelink-drops-womans-robodebt-after-she-mounts-court-challenge?CMP=soc_567&fbclid=IwAR1b4n-xywM7BbBxulEOSI3cz5gz9n23UJTjxiqdJinWiymMhpPGkoyOp7w