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Post by spaceyone on Jun 20, 2012 3:42:27 GMT 7
RE: the comment 'spaceyone' above .. if that is a fact,may well be.. sounds logical to Govt workings.. however under freedom of information (FOI)nothing medical can be given without your signed permission to another interested party and if International Services declined your application on those grounds in wanting to sight his report etc; you would have a good arguement. Good points though.. You are entitled to see what your Doctor writes or your medical history to another party its your welfare and in this case of portability must not only be discussed between you and your Doctors but be seen to be the truth..and yes.. you need to prove your assessment form was sent through, they could say they want these reports sent through the internet by a Doctor for security reasons of a persons medical history as postal may go astray. I would want a copy of my assessment, on legal terms later in some dispute or legal forum this would be essential. I have never not seen any medical report before it has gone to any govt dept or lawful entity. Thewhole situation of this capacity assessment I would think would be by Doctor /patient discussion, the questions no doubt to the Doctors will be loaded against us but if you are disabled from future working. You are disabled from future working. Don't rely on just your Doctor get Psychiatric assessments, they are not telling you that but remember the assessment is both psychological and physical, you medical practisioner is not a psychiatrist normally as well. Thanks Deanie. It is interesting that you say it is not legal to do it via their new methods, which are supposed to make things easier for us and the GP's. Yeah right, easier for them to deceive us. I am not O/S, and I do have all of my medical records, more than C/L has for me, since they lost a fair few, and I still have some newer ones up my sleeve, despite the best efforts to prevent me from getting them.
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Post by howdo on Jun 20, 2012 5:10:58 GMT 7
Jan 1st the 6 weeks comes in, Jan 1st... not July 2013. We have, or allow, very little discussion of what's wrong with members on the DSP, it is totally irrelevant to the fact that they ARE on the DSP, put there by Centrelink. So if Centrelink are going to start saying they were wrong in the past do you think Minister Macklin is going to stand up in Parliament and say she was wrong or lying last year when she stated that people would not be penalised for Centrelink's mistakes? I think everyone here will submit to a fair and unbiased assessment by independent health professionals, but not to unqualified Centrelink officers resentful that their new portability legislation will not catch all the people they wanted. I agree banjo, I cant get my head round the fact they can ignore previous reports that cost $1000s of dollars in the past. Reports by highly qualified specialists and just use there own appointed person. There has to be a human rights case in there somewhere, if not in Australia then overseas.
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egem
Full Member
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Post by egem on Jun 21, 2012 14:23:02 GMT 7
Hi its my first time writing here. I have been on DSP for 13 years and had been living overseas with portability. unfortunatly I returned back to Australia as my youngest child was diagnosed with a serious disability thought things would be better here but soon realized I couldn't take care of myself or my children, also my husband my other children and family is back overseas. I am considering applying for portability but am worried about what the outcome will be ..especially after reading your comments. As when I returned back to Au Centrelink put me through hell I could say.. I am stuck in a bad situation.. I wish everyone the best and hope everyone reunites with there family and loved ones..
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Post by Banjo on Jun 21, 2012 14:39:41 GMT 7
Welcome to the board. At the moment we're all waiting to see what happens. Were you living in an agreement country? You may be able to go back without too much difficulty, I'm not sure how it works though.
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Post by scuzzy on Jun 21, 2012 14:50:18 GMT 7
Hi Egem.
The first thing you need to ascertain was whether you were 'grandfathered' or not. This term refers to a group of DSP'ers who had certain criteria and were given unlimited portability in 2004, but it meant they were no longer considered residents of Australia.
You would know if you were 'grandfathered' because after 2004 you would have been able to stay o/s longer than the 13 week period and still got paid (but at a slightly reduced rate).
As long as you did'nt come back to Australia for more than 26 weeks at a time, you would have kept your unlimited portability, and also would still be regarded as a non-resident of Australia.
The reason you need to ascertain this is that if you were grandfathered and considered a non- resident, but then you came back to Australia and re-established residency, then you would be considered a former ex-resident.
Former non-residents have an exclusion period of 2 years before they can apply for the unlimited portability again.(I'm pretty sure this is how it works. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone)
If you put up some more detail about your circumstances, especially time frames, and the sorts of things Centrelink have been telling you about your status, someone on the forum should be able to give you a better lay of the land.
So there are three possibilities;
1. You are still Grandfathered (still have unlimited portability and considered non-resident) 2. You were never grandfathered, so you'd need to roll the dice and apply for Unlimited Portability 3. You were Grandfathered, but lost that unlimited Portability when you returned to Australia and thus also automatically regained your Australian resident status if you came back for more than 26 weeks. In this case you'd be excluded from unlimited portability for 2 years after you resumed being an Australian Citizen. (I think....someone back me up here.)
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egem
Full Member
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Post by egem on Jun 21, 2012 18:57:29 GMT 7
Scuzzy thanks alot for your response I arrived in Australia December 2011..When I came centrelink asked me if I was here permanantly and that was the only way my son would be treated here and obtain a concession so I said permanent as in long term.. I really didn't know the legislation and the outcome. A few months later I explained to centrelink about my hardship and stuggle but they said they couldn't help the legislation was straight forward and I had lost portability The ARO actually told me to go back overseas and work The reason they they put me on DSP was my medical condition and they know I cant work. Sorry but what is grandfathered I don't know that term?
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Post by scuzzy on Jun 22, 2012 8:44:59 GMT 7
Scuzzy thanks alot for your response I arrived in Australia December 2011..When I came centrelink asked me if I was here permanantly and that was the only way my son would be treated here and obtain a concession so I said permanent as in long term.. I really didn't know the legislation and the outcome. A few months later I explained to centrelink about my hardship and stuggle but they said they couldn't help the legislation was straight forward and I had lost portability The ARO actually told me to go back overseas and work The reason they they put me on DSP was my medical condition and they know I cant work. Sorry but what is grandfathered I don't know that term? Grandfathered means that you were in a group of thousands of Disability Support Pensioners (DSP'ers) to whom the Government in 2004 for very suspect reasons decided to grant unlimited portability for life to. But the tradeoff was that you automatically gave up Australian resident status (not that they explained it to people that simply and transparently though. Quite the opposite). This was an automatic process, so there was nothing to apply for and no other procedure other than you fit the criteria and were out of the country on a certain date in 2004 (I reckon the whole thing was REAL suss, don't get me started...) Now, they didn't explain this to people very well, in fact they deliberately kept MOST people in the dark. If you weren't from a specific demographic who the Grandfathering was specifically designed for, you probably weren't aware of what was really going on. Usually, someone who was 'Grandfathered' would automatically regain their Australian Citizenship only once they spent more than 26 weeks back in Oz....OR (and it's a big 'OR') They told Centrelink they were coming back to live in Australia permanently.
Now you see, Centrelink being the people they are, used this to trick people out of their unlimited portability (that a lot of people didn't even realise they had). The way they did this was by asking the disabled pensioner what seemed like a very off the cuff question when they arrived back in Australia for a visit or to renew their 13 week portability period (even though they didn't have to because they had been Grandfathered but didn't know it). They'd ask something like "Oh, so how was the weather over there? Nice was it?! Ok, let me just update your file. So you're just letting us know that you're living back in Australia right?! Ok, have a nice day". You see, most people didn't realise that what the Centrelink officer was actually doing was tricking the person who was Grandfathered out of their Grandfathered status with the seemingly harmless but cunning use of the word 'live'. Another trick was the Centrelink officer would say 'Ok, I just need to ask your address, where you're living?" Now most people would have assumed they meant where you were staying while back in Australia, so answered accordingly, thus loosing their unlimited portability just like that. You see, the Grandfathering provision was created to protect members of the Greek Community against the 13 week portability rule introduced in 2004, because the politicians needed their vote. I think you'll find that of the 2000 or so DSP'ers who were Grandfathered to Greece, they're all from one or two electorates in Australia. Remember, they're not Australian residents any more, but they're still Australian citizens, so still vote and still have families in tight knit communities back in Australia who vote. (But it's important to remember that without the Greek Community, we never would have had portability in the first place, so I'm not having a go at them.) Ok, the next question is how long you have been back in Australia. This is important. Grab a calender and figure out how many weeks it's been since you arrived in 2011. The reason I ask is that you may have grounds to appeal if the only reason they took your grandfathered status off you was that they coerced you into verbally declaring you were resuming Australian residence without having spent over 26 weeks. I guess that means you would have had to arrive some time very late in the year to now still be under 26 weeks given we are now in June. Even if you have been over 26 weeks, there still may be an appeal there based on the grounds that Centrelink didn't explain your status and the implications well enough to you, leading you to not make a well informed decision in your own best interest. However, the issue of the medical treatment which I assume was covered under medicare would then become a factor, but cross that bridge later. But first figure out if you've been here more than 26 weeks.
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Post by Banjo on Jun 22, 2012 9:12:10 GMT 7
Good advice Scuzzy one.
I distinctly remember going into the old Adelaide City Centrelink office about that time and telling them I was leaving the country for 13 weeks. The officer got my file and looked it it for a few minutes, shook her head, and said... I don't think you have to come back at all if you don't want to, hang on a minute".
She then rounded up a couple of women who looked senior and they had a conference out of my hearing distance. (Not difficult). Back she came and said sorry, I had to be back in 13 weeks.
So that was it, my life changed for ever over a 2 minute decision.
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Post by scuzzy on Jun 22, 2012 10:00:00 GMT 7
Yep, a very familiar story. So when you eventually got your file for other reasons later, could you see if in fact you had been Grandfathered or where going to be Grandfathered but they steered you off it?
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Post by Banjo on Jun 22, 2012 10:20:23 GMT 7
I doubt they would have recorded the conversation on my file and I couldn't find any reference to it or grandfathering. One of the surprises you get when your file arrives is that if you have been around for a while, and attracted a little attention... in my case 2 successful SSAT appeals and having the pension cut off twice... is that it is several times thicker than the yellow pages. I also had a couple of secret financial investigations which meant all my bank records back to about 1998 were included. I hate to think what I've cost them over the years.
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Post by scuzzy on Jun 22, 2012 10:39:37 GMT 7
The official Centrelink term for Grandfathering (although they use the term Grandfathering too) is 'Saved Case'. So they say you are a 'Saved Case' under 2004 changes or 2000 changes, ,or sometimes 'Saved Customer'
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Post by Banjo on Jun 22, 2012 10:45:49 GMT 7
No doubt shortened to "Sad Case" if you missed out.
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Post by scuzzy on Jun 22, 2012 10:51:37 GMT 7
Actually they call that "Basket Case"
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Post by Denis-NFA on Jun 22, 2012 17:38:42 GMT 7
And DSP stands for Damn Small Pittance
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Post by ralapure on Jun 23, 2012 12:55:01 GMT 7
im confused so if someone is on the dsp and is severly disabled ie more or les permenantly with say MS then they can stay overseas for more than 13 weeks per time if certain criteria are met?
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