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Post by justifiable1 on Oct 21, 2012 18:00:55 GMT 7
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Post by peter on Oct 21, 2012 22:28:36 GMT 7
He is singing for his supper.
Google.................Bill Shorten Joins Insiders 21/10/12 ..............and listen to what he says. Its in the last five minutes of the interview.
No change on the horizon as far as he is concerned.
The news of his change of view was dated 20/10/12. But the interview of 21/10/12 says "no immediate change".
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Post by justifiable1 on Dec 5, 2012 4:37:00 GMT 7
Well the so called "inquiry" did not recommend increasing the dole by $50, but they did recommend increasing the income free area....go figure!
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Post by Banjo on Dec 5, 2012 8:50:33 GMT 7
Easy... they think the more hours you're encouraged to work the more likely you will be to eventually breach the threshold or pick up full time work.
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Post by peter on Dec 5, 2012 9:58:06 GMT 7
The Government has said that the best way to help the unemployed is to have a strong economy.
And their second statement is always "look at the strong economy we have under our Labor Government".
The Prime Minister stated long ago that " the Labor Government is the party of work not of welfare".
Perhaps she got it half right. Society does not need welfare really, what society needs is social security.
So, if the politicians have transformed social security into welfare that is their fault. The blame belongs to Whitlam and 1973 was the year.
It is such a clanger of a statement that I doubt I will ever forget it............but there is some truth in it given that the Howard years by contrast were the years of middle class welfare bribes..............which the present government continues.
Its called the broad brush approach. Spray welfare everywhere to become popular, but this cancels the need to direct it where its most needed.
Thus a dole of $246 a week, with thousands of the Job Searchers, now on the dole for more than twenty years. No, you will not read about that in the press.
Nor will you read that the minimal amount able to be earned whilst on the dole has not been increased for thirty years. No cpi applied.
This bunch are pretending to do the job and most interested in appearing to do the job.
Problem is pretending does not change facts.
And we do have a system of welfare and not of social security. Thus no wheelchairs for the disabled, but schoolkids' bribes for all.
Priorities do not matter much. Its more about being popular.
They are all singing for their supper. But with the Parliamentary Pension system there, they have made sure that they will not be at Centrelink's door when they are out of a job and that is a pity.
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Post by Denis-NFA on Dec 5, 2012 13:17:55 GMT 7
peter,
if it wasn't for the welfare sector unemployment would be double whatever they have corrupted the number to be now....
they need us to be fighting them because it creates work....
social security is a figment of the past..a different Australia....
they need us to be in Australia because it creates work for them...full employment.
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Post by peter on Dec 5, 2012 21:36:10 GMT 7
Social Security is a figment of the past? Perhaps. But Australia never really got to a Social Security system. What should have become one has morphed into this "welfare" or vote buying system that we have today of something for everybody but hardly enough for anybody. It is spread too thin too far.
Its a system that they never overhaul but seem to always have the need to add new programmes to.
And then it needs armies of public servants to run it.
They keep the DSP's in Australia for two reasons;
1. Out of spite.
There is an envious mind set about, that works from self centredness " If I cannot have it than neither can he".
2. Out of suspicion that the DSP is not genuine.
There is a mindset about, that most DSP's are aware of, that they many people regard the DSP as containing a large group of "rorters".
So rather than allow a possible rorter to leave these shores they close the gate to make it more easy to keep an eye on them.
They did let many DSP rorters escape prior to 2004, with no method in place to this day to check up on their continuing eligibility, so maybe they learned some lessons. This involved the "Greek Conspiracy Case''.
So the official thinking is to keep them all locked up here so that rortful situations might not happen again. But they never do take the second step, which is to go through the doubtful cases in the paddock to double check if there are rorters there. So if there are any rorters there, they can sleep peacefully in Australia provded they do not make any noise.
So too with all the other welfare categories which are rorted, which is all of them. The checks are not systematic but accidental since the system relies upon the honesty of all participants.................a rather dodgy reliance.
Centrelink sends out seven million payments a fortnight to a population of 22 million.
650,000 of those are for the "Job Search Allowance"
It takes to President of The Business Council Of Australia, to observe on their behalf in today's Australian, that its not enough to afford their job search incidentals.
What a day, when the President of The Business Council Of Australia does the job that Mr Shorten should be doing.
There will be no increase in the dole in the dying days of this government.
Under a Liberal Government maybe, since the Business Council Of Australia President is concerned that they do not have enough money to job search.....................( his concern did not extend to what they eat or where they sleep)
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Post by peter on Dec 5, 2012 21:37:25 GMT 7
Social Security is a figment of the past? Perhaps. But Australia never really got to a Social Security system. What should have become one has morphed into this "welfare" or vote buying system that we have today of something for everybody but hardly enough for anybody. It is spread too thin too far.
Its a system that they never overhaul but seem to always have the need to add new programmes to.
And then it needs armies of public servants to run it.
They keep the DSP's in Australia for two reasons;
1. Out of spite.
There is an envious mind set about, that works from self centredness " If I cannot have it than neither can he".
2. Out of suspicion that the DSP is not genuine.
There is a mindset about, that most DSP's are aware of, that they many people regard the DSP as containing a large group of "rorters".
So rather than allow a possible rorter to leave these shores they close the gate to make it more easy to keep an eye on them.
They did let many DSP rorters escape prior to 2004, with no method in place to this day to check up on their continuing eligibility, so maybe they learned some lessons. This involved the "Greek Conspiracy Case''.
So the official thinking is to keep them all locked up here so that rortful situations might not happen again. But they never do take the second step, which is to go through the doubtful cases in the paddock to double check if there are rorters there. So if there are any rorters there, they can sleep peacefully in Australia provded they do not make any noise.
So too with all the other welfare categories which are rorted, which is all of them. The checks are not systematic but accidental since the system relies upon the honesty of all participants.................a rather dodgy reliance.
Centrelink sends out seven million payments a fortnight to a population of 22 million.
650,000 of those are for the "Job Search Allowance"
It takes to President of The Business Council Of Australia, to observe on their behalf in today's Australian, that its not enough to afford their job search incidentals.
What a day, when the President of The Business Council Of Australia does the job that Mr Shorten should be doing.
There will be no increase in the dole in the dying days of this government.
Under a Liberal Government maybe, since the Business Council Of Australia President is concerned that they do not have enough money to job search.....................( his concern did not extend to what they eat or where they sleep)
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Post by justifiable1 on Dec 6, 2012 3:51:26 GMT 7
It is amazing that the President of The Business Council Of Australia is doing the job Bill Shorten should be doing!
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Post by Banker on Dec 6, 2012 6:52:06 GMT 7
It is amazing that the President of The Business Council Of Australia is doing the job Bill Shorten should be doing! Not really, Bill Shorten can not make a decision, he is a waste of space. |
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Post by justifiable1 on Dec 6, 2012 7:05:50 GMT 7
My issue has always been that not everyone does or can live in Sydney, Melbourne and so on. Bill Shorten come to Tassie and see how easy it is to find "any job"!
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Post by Banjo on Dec 6, 2012 8:29:52 GMT 7
Shorten is actually one of the big gun decision makers for the ALP and touted as a future PM, we just don't like a lot of the decisions he makes.
Tasmania is to Australia what the DSP travellers are to voters as a whole, too insignificant for politicians to worry about.
Our inability to form a significant pressure group means that everything we achieve has to be done as individuals and that's very hard.
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jack
Full Member
Posts: 18
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Post by jack on Dec 6, 2012 14:48:37 GMT 7
What About DSP people get any extra?  |
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Post by newtodsp on Dec 6, 2012 15:19:46 GMT 7
Banjo, I challenge this notion. Due to our disabilities and location, we are unable to organise, but technically it is possible. I think perhaps one obstacle is fear of Centrelink. But if we can gather anonymously, and have a coherent and thought out list of criticisms of the system (as did the wheelchair heckler) I do believe we could get somewhere. The government capitalises on our lack of willingness to organise and form a disability 'union' so to speak.
Disabled people need to feel proud of our achievements, its no easy task battling Centrelink, fighting doctors and living through pain/impairment, and the criticism of society which denigrates those incapable of economic activity. All those people who complain about DSPensioners especially, would lack the strength and dedication required.
[/quote]Our inability to form a significant pressure group means that everything we achieve has to be done as individuals and that's very hard. [/quote][/b]
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Post by newtodsp on Dec 6, 2012 15:38:35 GMT 7
Peter,
I do agree with alot of what you say, especially where you say there is suspicion about the genuineness of DSPensioners. Suspicion rather than compassion seems to be the order of the day.
People talk about one or two people they know of, who rort the system, and then generalise and denigrate the whole group. There is no perfect monitoring system, at some point the costs of monitoring rorting exceeds the benefits, there will always be rorting. No matter how many speed cameras we put up, someone will always drive a little over the limit. It makes no sense to put up 10 million cameras to monitor everyone. Its just the way it is. The media encourages negativity towards all DSPensioners by running rorting stories, and lots of disgruntled unhappy people in society are just looking for someone to blame/put down.
In my view, payments such as the baby bonus are completely counterproductive, why not use that money to invest in a good public school system for the children? Surely all children are better off with good quality public education.
I disagree that the checks on welfare recipients are based on honesty, Centrelink is among many government agencies who are increasingly asking our internet service providers for our data browsing habits, without our consent. They monitor our bank balances as well.
The current government is not a true Labor party, but a centrist Liberal party at best. The left is no longer properly represented in the mainstream political arema, the Greens are the only party which raised the issue of the new highly unfair impairment tables in Parliament. What evidence is there that the Liberal Party is likely to do anything useful for us? Do you remember Hockey's speech which was celebrated by the extreme right of the UK political spectrum, which called for an Asian style safety net?
I am into evidence based reasoning, not ideology. Actions speak louder than words, and the pension increases the Labor Party have implemented have been historic. However, they don't go far enough due to their centrist mentality.
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