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Post by spaceyone on Mar 7, 2012 16:41:00 GMT 7
Great information you have been presenting, Rowdy. : )
Another reason why the voice of experience outweighs the parroting of procedure and rules, given by Centrelink employees/public servants. Especially when the reality of applying for anything in this country has become a psychological nightmare.
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Post by spaceyone on Mar 7, 2012 16:44:36 GMT 7
I've been TRYING to get help getting a job since January 2. All that time I have had nothing but hurdles. Prior to all this I was taking with a grain of salt the negative things people said about Centrelink, but having experienced their systemic and individual incompetence first-hand, it's simply astounding. When dealing with individuals, the left hand never seems to know what the right is doing. And when both parties are only partly competent, it's just a complete stuff-up. What makes it even worse is that whenever I physically go in to a Centrelink office, I feel like I've just entered an institution of some kind, as most of the customers there look like they've been somehow beaten into submission. They are really depressing places. Yes, it never used to be like that. It has become too complicated for them, and creates too many complications for us. So both parties come together from a state of mental fatigue and annoyance.
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Post by latindancer on Mar 12, 2012 5:14:14 GMT 7
On Friday afternoon at about 4.45pm, I received a phone call from the ARO who was conducting my review. ( As Tasmania is on daylight saving time, this would have been 5.45 pm for her). She said she had made a decision about my case but wanted to talk to me first before finalizing it. At the time, I thought it had been 13 weeks since my request for a review, but later I counted the weeks and it has been 14. My review involved 2 things : whether I should or should not continue to be paid DSP if I remained in Thailand, and a review of the decision to reduce my payment following my marriage in Thailand. She said that she could not make a decision about the first one and that if I wanted to return, I should call Centrelink's Disability number and a decision would be made then on a case by case basis. Regarding my reduced payment, she said she could not see any reason why I should be seen as a special case under section 24, so the original decision would remain. I objected to this and told her that the situation was ludicrous because my wife earns $90 a week in Thailand and I have no access to any of her funds (she spends it all on living), and in fact I have to give her money for many things. Moreover any economy gained from living as a couple (shared rent, food) is completely out of proportion to the reduction in payment, which was $120 per week. I was receiving 30% less ! However she disagreed and said "it doesn't work like that". ( I wonder just how it DOES work ?). She then apologized for the review taking so long. I struggled for words then, as I really objected to it having taken so long, and as I struggled to find words to say it politely, she said "bye" and hung up. I felt like I'd been cut of at the knees.....completely disempowered. She must have been looking at the clock, as it was 3 minutes to the hour when she hung up. These people are semi-sociopathic with little empathy for other humans. The culture of bureaucracy is destroying what humanity is in them. Superficially she seemed a nice person, but there is a hardness underneath which is not nice at all. She said she would send me the decision in writing together with information about how to appeal to the SSAT. I will of course be doing this. The amount of backpay I stand to possibly receive is slightly over $1,000, which is a large sum of money to me. Spacey has said that they also send a booklet detailing a lot of stuff they've done in the review process. This will be VERY interesting to read......
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Post by Banjo on Mar 12, 2012 5:30:37 GMT 7
It is very unusual for a Centrelink decision to be overturned at ARO level, I suppose it could be compared to kids complaining to their father after their mother said "no TV for a week". I did get half a decision off mine, he ruled wasn't a resident of an overseas country but still didn't reside in Australia. The SSAT is a slightly better bet but you're still under the FAHCSIA umbrella.
The system is biased against the appellant at the lower levels which is inconvenient for them and expensive for the government, as the process continues until an independent tribunal is reached.
Think how simple it would be to set up a fair and independent system of hearing appeals between ARO and SSAT levels and how much better it would be for all concerned.
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Post by Banker on Mar 12, 2012 7:01:52 GMT 7
It is very unusual for a Centrelink decision to be overturned at ARO level, I suppose it could be compared to kids complaining to their father after their mother said "no TV for a week". I did get half a decision off mine, he ruled wasn't a resident of an overseas country but still didn't reside in Australia. The SSAT is a slightly better bet but you're still under the FAHCSIA umbrella. The system is biased against the appellant at the lower levels which is inconvenient for them and expensive for the government, as the process continues until an independent tribunal is reached. Think how simple it would be to set up a fair and independent system of hearing appeals between ARO and SSAT levels and how much better it would be for all concerned. The words simple & Government should never be in the same sentence.
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Post by spaceyone on Mar 12, 2012 12:59:53 GMT 7
On Friday afternoon at about 4.45pm, I received a phone call from the ARO who was conducting my review. ( As Tasmania is on daylight saving time, this would have been 5.45 pm for her). She said she had made a decision about my case but wanted to talk to me first before finalizing it. Beware of phone calls from public servants made after 5pm.
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Post by rowdy on Mar 12, 2012 13:12:08 GMT 7
On Friday afternoon at about 4.45pm, I received a phone call from the ARO who was conducting my review. ( As Tasmania is on daylight saving time, this would have been 5.45 pm for her). She said she had made a decision about my case but wanted to talk to me first before finalizing it. Beware of phone calls from public servants made after 5pm. + 1 I think that is good advice.
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Post by spaceyone on Mar 13, 2012 10:56:47 GMT 7
I had lodged an online complaint about Centrelink in Murwillumbah over not paying my son, after we had sat there at an interview two days beforehand, and told that he would be paid normally that week.
I intended to go back to the branch and have a go at them, but didn't do it. However, my son has another appointment this week, and so I will get my chance.
However, late last week we received correspondence from the person claiming that he is investigating the online complaint. I recognised the name, but wasn't sure from where. The letter claimed he works at the call centre in Illawarra.
It dawned on me last night, it is from the manager of Tweed Heads Centrelink, of which Murwillumbah is a sub-branch. The same manager who when directed by Centrelink to investigate one of my complaints, called me in there, played mind games with me, and then falsely recorded that I had become abusive towards him.
I phoned the number to ascertain if it was in fact the same person. I was told that the number I had rung was a call centre, but that it is not located in the Illawarra.
At first the person I spoke to said that no person of that name worked for the call centre, but she would be able to transfer me to him. She went on to explain that complaints are directed back to the office concerned, and printed out with the name of their manager on it.
After hearing what I had to say about him and this way of dealing with complaints (sending it to be investigated by the same branch you are complaining about), she tried to change her story. She then asserted that he was in fact employed by the call centre, as a customer relations officer.
Must have been a big pay cut for him. And how does he commute all the way from Woollongong to Tweed Heads for work each day?
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Post by spaceyone on Mar 13, 2012 11:39:26 GMT 7
Further to the above, I have just been on the phone to the Minister for Human Services Office in Canberra.
I have outlined my refusal to have our latest complaint investigated by the Manager of Tweed Heads.
I have advised her that I am going to take legal proceedings against either the Minister for Human Services, or my Local MP, Justine Elliot, who's office I had approached for help at the outset.
I have advised the Minister's Office that I am done with my complaints being ignored, and done with the continued harrassment committed against me and mine.
I have offered to send her a copy of the article I wrote for the Sydney Morning Herald and our own Personal Stories section. She advised that she will decide what to do next, after reading it, and get back to me.
I didn't know we had a new Minister, appointed 4 March 2012, Mr Kim Carr. I haven't been watching the news much lately. That's two in short succession, I wonder if the others already had law suits against them they are trying to dodge?
Phone number for the Minister for Human Services: 02 6277 7200 minister@humanservices.gov.au
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Post by Banjo on Mar 13, 2012 12:20:30 GMT 7
Further to the above, I have just been on the phone to the Minister for Human Services Office in Canberra. I have outlined my refusal to have our latest complaint investigated by the Manager of Tweed Heads. I have advised her that I am going to take legal proceedings against either the Minister for Human Services, or my Local MP, Justine Elliot, who's office I had approached for help at the outset. I have advised the Minister's Office that I am done with my complaints being ignored, and done with the continued harrassment committed against me and mine. I have offered to send her a copy of the article I wrote for the Sydney Morning Herald and our own Personal Stories section. She advised that she will decide what to do next, after reading it, and get back to me. I didn't know we had a new Minister, appointed 4 March 2012, Mr Kim Carr. I haven't been watching the news much lately. That's two in short succession, I wonder if the others already had law suits against them they are trying to dodge? Phone number for the Minister for Human Services: 02 6277 7200 minister@humanservices.gov.au I think immiadvice pointed out the new minister a couple of days ago, I'll make the necessary changes when I get time.
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Post by latindancer on Mar 16, 2012 7:18:26 GMT 7
My latest Centrelink experience :
I'm _ STILL _ trying to do something which I should have been able to do in my first week back in Oz. I have been back for 10 weeks now, and still unable to register with a disability agency of my choice. Centrelink "linked" me with one place, ( which is essentially a de facto registration, because you are linked PENDING registration ), and I cannot register with another because I am still linked to them, despite being exited from their system. This is a lovely little Catch-22 situation. A kind lady from Centrelink was being active and trying to sort out the mess earlier in the week, but I haven't heard back from her yet. I got onto it myself this morning, phoning DEEWR and the previous agency. Incidentally, I complained to the person at this agency that almost every contact I have had with Centrelink has been a stuff-up, and they said that if they had a dollar for every time someone had said that to them, they'd be millionaires. However it seems that the problem THIS time is that the ESS system the latest agency uses to register me with them, links me back to the previous agency automatically......even though I have been exited from their system. So we're just going to do an agency-to-agency transfer. I had suggested doing this a long time ago, even before we knew what the problem was, but today I had to MAKE it happen. This highlights what I've said for a long time : that the left hand does not know what the right is doing.
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Post by spaceyone on Mar 16, 2012 17:10:01 GMT 7
Well, I had fun at Centrelink the other day. As you all know I have been a bit cranky lately. I accompanied my son to his second interview about nothing within a 3 week time frame. I took some coloured gel pens, in case the same guy that likes to draw doodles on a pad while he deceives you, served us, and he did. I let him run through his stuff with my son, some of which didn't make sense, and so he tried to explain procedure to us. I did get my chance to pull out the gel pens at one stage, and tell him that I had bought them along to make the doodle drawing more fun this time. Once he had finished, I asked him to explain why we had been summoned back again for nothing, when my son did not need to report for a 3 month period. In the end he was crying that he was not the one that made the appointment, that it was made on a Friday and he doesn't even work on a Friday. I informed him of the complaint and I had made about him, and about the complaint I had made about it being investigated by a corrupt manager. I informed him that I had phoned Canberra and spoken to the Minister's Office about it and informed them that I was taking considering taking said minister to court and holding him accountable for YOUR actions, and those of the staff members of this branch. When he insinuated that he was innocent of wrong doing, I bought up the fact that he had served me twice, and I did not get paid both times. That he had used the same trick on me twice, and that I would have believed him if it was just the once, but not twice. I told him that the story of the game that he plays of turning the monitor to show you the figures, and then not hitting send, is also posted to the internet. He protested his innocence and cried that he is ex-army military, and assured me that he was an honest man. So I told him that he should watch his back, due to being in a cesspit of corrupt people, which is again demonstrated by the fact that every time he processes something for me, some other mongrel comes along and accesses my file and changes it on him. He finally agreed that some of what I said was quite true, I won't go into detail here. I didn't swear or shout, but was able to be clearly heard at times throughout their office. The customer beside me jaw had dropped, and the staff were looking daggers at me, but had no reason to rush me. I again, let them all know, that I was sick of the 18 months of harrassment of myself and son, by them and other agencies, because I had appealed an illegal decision they had made, and that if it did not stop forthwith, then the minister would end up in court over it all. Then I sneered at the girl on the front computer, as I walked out, and was gone.
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Post by Banjo on Mar 16, 2012 17:12:43 GMT 7
Nice work spacey, loved the pen bit.
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Post by spaceyone on Mar 16, 2012 17:14:54 GMT 7
Nice work spacey, loved the pen bit. Tooth came out cleanly today. Not so grumpy now. The bill for that was more than half as much as the cost of my initial consultation with the first dentist, where all he did was clean them.
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Post by rowdy on Mar 16, 2012 20:05:05 GMT 7
Well, I had fun at Centrelink the other day. As you all know I have been a bit cranky lately. I accompanied my son to his second interview about nothing within a 3 week time frame. I took some coloured gel pens, in case the same guy that likes to draw doodles on a pad while he deceives you, served us, and he did. I let him run through his stuff with my son, some of which didn't make sense, and so he tried to explain procedure to us. I did get my chance to pull out the gel pens at one stage, and tell him that I had bought them along to make the doodle drawing more fun this time. Once he had finished, I asked him to explain why we had been summoned back again for nothing, when my son did not need to report for a 3 month period. In the end he was crying that he was not the one that made the appointment, that it was made on a Friday and he doesn't even work on a Friday. I informed him of the complaint and I had made about him, and about the complaint I had made about it being investigated by a corrupt manager. I informed him that I had phoned Canberra and spoken to the Minister's Office about it and informed them that I was taking considering taking said minister to court and holding him accountable for YOUR actions, and those of the staff members of this branch. When he insinuated that he was innocent of wrong doing, I bought up the fact that he had served me twice, and I did not get paid both times. That he had used the same trick on me twice, and that I would have believed him if it was just the once, but not twice. I told him that the story of the game that he plays of turning the monitor to show you the figures, and then not hitting send, is also posted to the internet. He protested his innocence and cried that he is ex-army military, and assured me that he was an honest man. So I told him that he should watch his back, due to being in a cesspit of corrupt people, which is again demonstrated by the fact that every time he processes something for me, some other mongrel comes along and accesses my file and changes it on him. He finally agreed that some of what I said was quite true, I won't go into detail here. I didn't swear or shout, but was able to be clearly heard at times throughout their office. The customer beside me jaw had dropped, and the staff were looking daggers at me, but had no reason to rush me. I again, let them all know, that I was sick of the 18 months of harrassment of myself and son, by them and other agencies, because I had appealed an illegal decision they had made, and that if it did not stop forthwith, then the minister would end up in court over it all. Then I sneered at the girl on the front computer, as I walked out, and was gone. Hi Spacey I am glad the tooth is okay. Hopefully on the mend. I am very interested. What cause of action you might have against the minister? and in what jurisdiction you can commence proceedings against the minister Rowdy.
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