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Post by nomadic on Oct 21, 2019 7:25:46 GMT 7
Yes, the people seem happy enough in general in those places but capitalism is still in full swing also as there are rich people and poor. Often the politicians as usual and any protests are treated with draconian measures of brutality. So as I now say; There has never been a good politician in history and never will be. They are all egos in suits who have a disease of wanting power and wealth for themselves only. Whether by big pay packets or corruption. SAME SAME. Whether elected by the people or self-appointed. Fancy Morrison being called "the right honorable" or any of them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2019 8:53:36 GMT 7
Centrelink has revealed it has chased the estates of more than 500 dead people over perceived robo-debts.
The federal government has pursued the estates of up hundreds of dead people flagged as owing money under its much criticised robo-debt program. The Department of Human Services, which controls Centrelink, has been using an algorithm to examine welfare payments and determine if people have been overpaid or collecting money they’re not entitled too.In July, Government Services Minister Stuart Robert was forced to apologise after it was revealed a mother had been contacted by Centrelink over a perceived debt owed by her son, a disability pensioner who had died six months earlier. “In the vast majority of times, compassion will step in and the debt will be wiped,” Mr Robert told Parliament. “In this particular case, because of the size of the debt being both uneconomical to recover as well as the length of time, the department should have simply waived the debt. “They didn’t, my department was wrong, I apologise for it.” At a Senate hearing on Wednesday night, a committee heard there had been 515 instances of the estates of dead Centrelink clients being pursued to try to recover debts. In 73 of these cases, debts were recovered. A further 442 were written off, the committee heard. Liberal senator and Social Services Minister Anne Ruston told the committee “this can occur for a range of reasons, for example, where the department was not aware that the person was deceased, a delay in processing, a manual staff error, or a combination of these factors”. Recipients of robo-debt letters are presumed guilty and must prove their innocence. But the government has admitted more than a quarter of debt notices sent have been wrong. In September, the government said the robo-debt program was expected to cost more than $500 million over the next three years – and return $2 billion to the federal budget. Centrelink has said it expects to run another 1.6 million robo-debt reviews in that time, despite calls to scrap the controversial welfare compliance program. However, the program also faces several legal challenges. Two people who have already taken legal action have had their debts wiped, while Labor is supporting a class action against robo-debt. It is also the subject of a Senate inquiry. thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2019/10/24/dead-people-robodebt/
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Post by Denis-NFA on Oct 25, 2019 19:03:52 GMT 7
bearyour last post highlights the ATO. the ATO have no mechanism to actually wipe a debt. Not trying to be morbid but I am reminded of the old saying, " in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2019 20:35:23 GMT 7
Department of Human Services secretary Renee Leon did not rule out a future expansion of the robodebt scheme.
Department refuses to rule out robodebt expansion to target age pensioners. Human Services says no current plan but expansion could happen ‘down the track’. The Department of Human Services has not ruled out targeting age pensioners and other vulnerable people as part of the controversial robodebt scheme, saying any decision to expand the scheme in order to meet budget targets would be made “further down the track”.Guardian Australia revealed in August a leaked ministerial submission draft created by the department recommended Scott Morrison’s cabinet sign on off 350,000 online debt compliance reviews of older and vulnerable Australians over the next three years. The expansion was needed to meet the department’s $2.1bn in projected fiscal savings over the next three years, with the documents noting “estimated savings over the forward estimates cannot be achieved without undertaking sensitive cohort reviews”. Robodebt could target pensioners and 'sensitive' groups, leaked documents show But it appears the plan detailed by the Guardian was killed off by the government, at least for the short-term, estimates heard on Thursday night. The Greens senator Rachel Senator asked the department secretary Renee Leon whether Human Services had advised the government to expand the scheme to older Australians and the vulnerable, who have been ring-fenced since 2017. Leon replied: “The government has no plans to recommence those.” Siewert said: “That doesn’t answer my question, have you provided advice?” “We discuss the operation of the program with government from time to time and in the course of that the government has indicated that it has no intention to recommence the reviews of those cohorts,” said Leon. Officials also conceded that the department mistakenly sent out 10,000 debt notices in April as a result of a “manual staff error”, but said the mistake was picked up within three days. It was also revealed in Senate questions on notice that Centrelink had issued debts to 169 welfare recipients who were already dead, while it also approached representatives of “deceased customers” in 515 cases. Almost all the debts were waived. The robodebt scheme has been dogged by criticism and is currently the subject of a second Senate inquiry, a federal court challenge and a potential class action. Later, when asked by Labor’s Claire Moore if the government could make its budget targets while excluding older people and the vulnerable she said a decision could be made in future. 'The system is truly Orwellian': our horrifying experiences with robodebt | Letecia Luty and Ken O'Shea Leon said there was no “current” proposal or “immediate fiscal need” to make a decision while officials maintained the scheme was on track to meet its projected savings. But asked it she had ruled out expanding the scheme, Leon said: “Whether we will need to go to government and seek their views about putting them back in is a matter that we’ll come to further down the track depending on the progress of the program.” The documents seen by the Guardian proposed a phased-in approach to conducting robodebt reviews of older Australians, and those with a Centrelink “vulnerability indicator”, such as the homeless and disabled. It would have begun with a small number of reviews early next year, the documents said. Overall, more than one million robodebts are projected to be launched over the next three years, a seperate Senate inquiry has been told. The department also faced pointed questioning about the legal foundations of the scheme. Officials initially asked to take on notice questions from Labor’s Kimberley Kitching about which specific legislation the government relied on to administer the scheme. “It doesn’t require specific legislation, Senator, because the social security legislation requires the department to make sure people are paid accurately if information comes to us,” Leon said. She was asked by Kitching if the department had “any concerns about the lack of legal foundation for the scheme, particularly its reverse onus of proof”. “We don’t accept that there’s a reverse onus of proof, Senator,” Leon replied. Department officials later referred to section 66A of the Social Security (Administration) Act, which outlines the requirement for recipients to “inform of a change of circumstances”. Critics have argued the section does not relate to debt recovery and does not provide legal basis for the scheme. amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/oct/25/department-refuses-to-rule-out-robodebt-expansion-to-target-age-pensioners
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Post by Denis-NFA on Oct 25, 2019 21:36:11 GMT 7
Give 'em heaps Senator Siewert!
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Post by nomadic on Oct 26, 2019 6:55:52 GMT 7
the problem as always is. How many of the general population have even heard of robodebt Or disabled being put on Newstart? The mugs don't see this stuff unless it is on the 6.00 news or front page in the gutter press and it never is.
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Post by latindancer on Oct 26, 2019 12:49:03 GMT 7
Good point !
Without this forum, I would NOT know about these things....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2019 13:21:53 GMT 7
Good point ! Without this forum, I would NOT know about these things.... Or when something sneaks up and bites you..... that's what led me here to the forum. Blissfully unawares, believing and trusting in my Government to do the right thing by me. Finding out I could go OS was unbelievable, then being told after a few trips, "We've changed for how long." when reporting my travel; they shouldn't have done that! Foolish move because it made me politically aware! Cheers bear
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Post by Denis-NFA on Oct 26, 2019 15:27:54 GMT 7
the problem as always is. How many of the general population have even heard of robodebt Or disabled being put on Newstart? The mugs don't see this stuff unless it is on the 6.00 news or front page in the gutter press and it never is. This is all being driven out of the ATO. There was a news item I saw about the number of millions of audits of taxpayers the ATO are performing and C/Ling Slaves have got caught up in the net. So they are aware nomadic but the two are just not linked at the moment and it would be good to do that.
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Post by latindancer on Oct 26, 2019 18:32:52 GMT 7
^ "Centrelink slaves", Denis ? Yes.... Perhaps also vassals, victims, and (of necessity), sometimes grovelers. Moreover, those of us still trapped in Australia and no longer allowed to travel as readily as we were used to : captives.
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Post by Denis-NFA on Oct 27, 2019 15:04:51 GMT 7
^ "Centrelink slaves", Denis ? Yes.... Perhaps also vassals, victims, and (of necessity), sometimes grovelers. Moreover, those of us still trapped in Australia and no longer allowed to travel as readily as we were used to : captives. latindancerThe way I see it is that Federal, State and Local gubmint bureaucrats are there to obstruct us from doing anything and just a nuisance to them and dregs that need to be kept in line. Their bureaucratic forebears and the Rum Corp had a word for us - Convicts and you were guilty whether you had done anything wrong or not. Newstart recipients are convicted by not having a Non existant job! C/Link Convicts is what we are.
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Post by latindancer on Oct 27, 2019 17:42:50 GMT 7
True....it's odd how that culture has been passed down. Perhaps it's and English thing....I don't know.
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Post by Denis-NFA on Oct 27, 2019 19:09:00 GMT 7
True....it's odd how that culture has been passed down. Perhaps it's and English thing....I don't know. latindancerLOL In Australia's case I'm positive it is but it doesn't explain The Mandarin Mind that permeates the world. And don't forget that they all fly to conferences somewhere and swap notes and teach the same crap in their universities. There is a self published book, Bronze Age Mindset, by a person calling himself “Bronze Age Pervert" that is arguing that "the elites" are finished and is creating some controversy. twitter.com/bronzeagemantisIt's "The System"!
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Post by Denis-NFA on Oct 27, 2019 19:43:25 GMT 7
latindancerThis thread is called and discusses the "Debt Debacle" but the real "Debt Debacle" of gubmint is their absolute waste of money on hair brained schemes and whims. The whole Sickness Benefit/DSP/Carer/NDIS apparatus within gubmint should be shut down and operated basically from within Doctors, Psychiatrists and Clinical Psychologists offices. Sure, maintain and do checks and balances but first deal with the applicant. In this day and age there is no need for an 1850's type bureaucracy.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 19:48:09 GMT 7
There's no need for lies about where the money comes from in this day and age either; though the way this mob spend it and give it away, it should be blatantly obvious to all people everywhere that they just print it as they need it. After writing up the appropriate appropriation bills of course. Cheers bear
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