|
Post by aussieg46 on Apr 5, 2017 17:25:40 GMT 7
Am a little uncertain of the procedures now C/L have been really good with information , i received a letter Medical Eligibility Review and in that was a link if unsure for Medical Risk Based Reviews. ive chronic pain due to an auto accident where someone run up the tush of my vehicle many years ago and nothing even after all the physio appointments went back to normal which as much its been a complete eye opener for someone who was of able body no restrictions other than being asthmatic which helped curbed the bronchitis that laid me up for weeks on end prior to my tonsillectomy in my mid/late 20s that i want even aware of being something i could claim disability for, it something thats been for as long a i can remember so never thought anything of it although thankfully it is noted everywhere so is not a "new" problem... in the last 2 yrs ive done more physio and hydrotherapy which i over did it and it all flared again,
it seems to be a daunting task as iv been with this doctor now for the last 3 yrs and there is now no longer a treating doctors report its all evidence based, mo does he have a copy of my full file from previous gp of over 14 yrs which is fine as ive all my reports from the specialists but not a copy of any referrals made from my previous gp,,albeit back in 2004 the doctors form and the neurologist report, and the C/Link doctors assessment when my doctor applied for me at that time, so if i remember correctly they have never received anything since then reports wise as in the TD reports they've stated no to being contacted,,, even though its down as permanent when i tried accessing voluntary a form that the doctor filled an "ESA - employment services assessment" and stated everything was permanent, yet the last 2 reviews prior to that the TD reports had it as fluctuating, those are not on the computer and can only be attained as a hard copy
there was thread on here i saw about if you get a review letter and what to do with your reports to help your doctor,, thankfully i made an appt with him for this week for a completely different reason and somewhere for some reason i opted for online letters never opted out went on there as my son has just had his DSP granted, and was waiting for a debt to incur as hes in his last year of school. being his nominee for letters etc,, was when i noticed this one ,,,,, yes its completely random, so will need to let him know its up for review and i a doctors letter along with any reports i have will need to be submitted
when i rang them all flustered as i get when stresses happen and admittedly my sons was a very straight forward JCA and the online C/L doctor appointment which i could barely get 5 coherent sentences together made me feel a tad speech dyslexic,
speaking with someone from disabilities the same happens at times especially today and yesterday, i know what im after but same as above even though im educated one would feel they're dealing with someone not so.
I was reading about the FOI in a thread about asking for "all documentation/information between the date you applied for the DSP and the date you asked for a copy of your file " along with the email address ,,, is it to be a letter or is to the FOI form as an attachment
on my file as they can only go back to 2011 when everything was first put on computer but im uncertain as to the quality of it all as the lady earlier had a hard time in reading it ,, yes ive been told it under the 30 hr rule it states on the website for searching it will be the new table being used and from what i can make of it all i that the risk based means that it those people that are at risk of not meeting the eligibility requirements, yet nothings changed in fact over time nothing ha improved period, pain i different or driving , i do limit me when i know im not 100% in me to drive my dr will not end me for another neurologist visit nor will the pain clinic send me for an mri even if i have numbness as it not worth the cost after all the time thats gone by
im endeavoring to go though all of what information i have and to bullet point it all for my GP as that' what it seems C/L are after is a letter from my DR from the initial date of grant if anything has since improved. what treatments ive undertaken (on hte first specialist report but they can have that information again) what are the current treatments is ie medication etc tramadol endone/oxycodone valium and antenex ,,, the not current dr wan ted me to try baclofen but that makes my brain go foggy and im not good at any work that requires brain function (if it there at all thee days) ... from what i can make of the evidence form as it in the still might get better phase or the stabilized phase, and after reading other thing yes that what it mean,,
all i know is as straight forward as that seems to be it seems to be a black hole tunnel as i have no idea where to start with all my information in front of me, the paper work to do with ctc scans aren't in them i don't think but hey results are referred to in reports
if nothing has changed and it stable how do i find what i need to address it all for my dr who hopefully doesnt mind typing a letter or getting hi receptionists to do so, the tables are easy to read and understand its the 30hr rule guidelines im having a problem finding or understanding as i take it that is what the DAT will be referring to when making their decision should they feel i need to have an appt with a JCA,,,
i know im to breathe but after all this time i know im unable to get a job and continue it without everything going stupid in me when i boom/bust as i dont go through a job place for work due to job match being a disability provider for help with work so i apply for positions advertised in the paper seasonal work as well as sporadic govt jobs(voting. and census) where once done i can go back to a period of not working and having it settle down again... that and it not easy to gothough red tape every 2 yrs for what may or may not end up with employment and it being all voluntary on my part they dont want to know me either, .. that and even with my tonsils out i still rely heavily on my puffers and neulin in a report its was down a managed.. i even asked about the Australian Disability Enterprises or under Supported Worker Systems that are excluded. but a C/L employee told me to forget going down that route years ago for work, i thought going though something like would be more beneficial than rocking up to an interview and not informing them of any existing problems , which i wrong on my part but tell a potential employer ,,been there and the interview goes downhill real quick
why is it so much easier to collate information on behalf of someone else than it is yourself, having a new dr even of 3 yrs and granted an extension to lodge all the required information as well as being told i can apply for a further extension if waiting on paper work or the doctor due to limited hrs limited days etc,, its just so confusing
sorry for waffling and getting completely off the topic on most of it all but got everything going round in my head and not one thing wants be in the particular slot it should be in to have it in order etc,,, its bad enough dealing with life with incessant pain and now it seems like one ha to jump through hoops all over again
the facts are i received a letter Medical Eligibility Review and in that was a link if unsure for Medical Risk Based Reviews. "Reviews will include certain DSP customers who are most at risk of not meeting eligibility criteria. The Department will use a risk profiling based approach to select people for review. Reviews will apply the current DSP qualification criteria using the January 2012 revised Impairment Tables. Under this measure, DSP customers will have a comprehensive review of their medical qualification for DSP." everything else just seems to be extremely ambiguous without actually rocking up and asking someone in person to please help me with what i need to get for it all .. as the TDR was so much easier,
|
|
|
Post by murphy on Apr 6, 2017 0:31:33 GMT 7
Welcome to the forum.
Although the TDR is no longer sent out by Centrelink, you can ask your GP to fill one in (there's a copy of the form in the other thread) or to write a letter/report describing your current impairments. Ask for a copy of your records and submit any that are relevant to Centrelink.
You will be assessed against the new 2012 tables. This means your doctor needs to describe your conditions in detail, not just say that nothing has changed since your last review.
Look at the Tables and think about how your conditions relate to them. If you can, print them out and take them to your doctor. Ask your doctor if s/he will comment on which Tables apply and how many points he thinks your impairments attract.
Once you have put together your documents, photocopy them all so that you have a complete copy of your submission. Then submit them to Centrelink in person, ask for the top page to be date stamped and get a photocopy of that stamped page.
If you have more questions, please ask. We will try to support you through the process.
|
|
|
Post by murphy on Apr 6, 2017 3:59:41 GMT 7
In relation to the 30 hour rule -- people who were granted DSP before 2005 are measured against the 30 hour rule. The legislation requires you to have at least 20 points on the Tables and an inability to work 30 hours or more per week, BUT people are losing reviews and claims because of POINTS.
It would, however, still be helpful if your doctor stated you are unable to complete work or a training activity of 30 hours or more per week.
|
|
|
Post by aussieg46 on Apr 6, 2017 8:53:16 GMT 7
apologies cant find the TDR as a guide for him anywhere unfortunately i need to leave and haven't been able to print been the letter they sent me
thankyou for the above ill have more time when i get back .. maybe if i take my tablet with me i can show him the letter and or a usb
|
|
|
Post by murphy on Apr 6, 2017 9:02:31 GMT 7
|
|
|
Post by aussieg46 on Apr 6, 2017 13:14:19 GMT 7
ty
.. just come back from my appt and he’s filled on the fly form su684.1507 which is a Verification of medical condition(s) to be used for a verify medical conditions affecting your capacity to work which he been aked to ill out before from c/l but reading that its if you need an Employment Services Assessment which he states its permanent have is it Medical Report Disability Support Pension I have no idea where I even found that form and not much else it very basic,,, int the more detail the better
>https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/forms/su684 was the form he used any help thanks as I’m getting an ink cartridge soon and coming home to print it all up
on that form he filled filled out diagnoses - chroic pain symptoms not very descriptive ie back pain stiffness of spine past treatment and current
the asthma one doesnt state anything to do with exertionm just coughing and wheezing ,,,no planned ongoing treatment for either
really sorry for the bother ,,,he was being a helpful as possible as quick as he could ,,, Murphy I endeavoured to stick with what info you put there and given a longer appointment or to even have it dropped off or his staff to collate and him to sign would have been much better .. I sort of don’t want to go into a lot of detail on a public forum as it cant be taken back what you type
is that form sufficient when coupled with my medication history and neurologist report
Unfortunately with c/l I do like to dot all my I's and cross my T's as i eel the more transparent information given when asked the quicker a process and if as much as possible is thrown at them then the likelihood of anything else being requested should be limited in nature and should make a process go so much quicker
really sorry for the bother ,,,he was being a helpful as possible as quick as he could ,,, Murphy I endeavoured to stick with what info you put there and given a longer appointment or to even have it dropped off or his staff to collate and him to sign would have been much better .. I sort of don’t want to go into a lot of detail on a public forum as it cant be taken back what you type
|
|
|
Post by tasjo on Apr 6, 2017 17:54:31 GMT 7
I would strongly advise asking Welfare Rights (they are usually at the Community Legal Centres). They generally have templates that you can give to your doctor that would address the impairment tables.
The other way to approach letters from your doctors is to thoroughly read through the impairment tables and the examples of functional impairment used. Then ask your doctor to confirm that the impairment is due to your diagnosed disability, and that the disability has been present since you started to receive the pension.
I was a new applicant to DSP in March 2016 after I finished work late 2015 due to my health. One thing I have realised through this process is that the relevant dates are critical in CLinks assessment, and ensuring that your doctors are specific about the ways your disability affects you. For instance, if you cannot use public transport, its important that your doctor states this and states that it is a permanent restriction.
I hope that helps a little.
|
|
|
Post by aussieg46 on Apr 12, 2017 23:28:32 GMT 7
so far with what ive provided ,,,, typical pain clinic 2 different doctors conflicting reports etc yet it was my information i was relaying to them yet at no time did either pain dr listen and quote me word for word,,, the 2nd one even got one of my medications with dosage wrong
it would seem it wont matter how much your doctor types in a letter ,,, rang them to inform them i forgot the cover letter with the barcode ,,,, nothing has changed ... nothing has gotten miraculously better it stayed the same with a few fluctuations which come with "exacerbations or flare ups- boom busting according to he psychologist" of me doing the wrong thing (like getting a seasonal /contract type job as i come from family who don't sit on their tushes and has been ingrained in me from a young age you need to work)
i was informed a JCA appointment which hasn't had a referral from c/link yet is listed as something that will happen ,i did state that a gentleman on the phone when i was questioning was the form my dr filled in sufficient tell me i wouldn't be sent for another JCA as ive been for one and that its only a medical review ,but someone else then yesterday stated they can get a JCA done anytime they like, maybe the on the fly one he did wasnt suficient - im hoping as im booked in again for a much longer and no doubt his last appt for the day
in the office this afternoon when taking in the form for FOI i was told by the lady there ive en working for year did say it was it was bit unusual that it would be showing as having that possibly lined up when its a medical review apparently the impairment score they have on me is 10 points for neck disorder 10 points for back disorder from the original c/link Dr i was sent to ,,, that now no longer seems to be in the current tables i think i found the older one they used to go by ,,, nowhere does anything state there will be improvement .... id like to know why they feel another jca will be done unless its due to the fact i cant supply anything new only that its for managing phase of the pain the best i can im getting help with but nothing that will make it go away
ive had my share of part time short term jobs when i probably really shouldn't have done them ... but its what keeps my sanity with some sort of semblance of normality where i do my best to ignore theres anything wrong in me ,,, knowing i can let it settle down in between and if it takes a while to get it back to "normal" then it does,,, maybe it a good thing ive tried to get work over the years with it as i know how much i can and cant do and what happens in me when i do
Diagnoses treatment /medication physio hydro stabilized with any help not going to get better in 2yrs functional impact my symptoms have that will prohibit me from working/retraining 30 hrs a week
TABLE 5. SPINAL FUNCTION Determination of spinal impairments must be based on a demonstrable loss of function. TABLE 5.1 Cervical spine
TEN Loss of half of normal range of movement and frequent/constant neck pain or loss of three quarters of normal range of movement with infrequent neck pain.
TABLE 5.2 Thoraco - lumbar-sacral spine TEN Loss of one-quarter of normal range of movement as well as back pain or referred pain: • with many physical activities and • with standing for about 30 minutes and • with sitting or driving for about 60 minutes. or Loss of half of normal range of movement.
those table no longer exists so wondering if that's the reason for having to have another JCA as that would no longer have me meet the criteria for DSP although i can still see where it would come under another section although not under the 1 table, ... but its definitely not the medical part that is the problem
just need to trudge through what i have at present available to me with reports bullet point them to the tables get the letter for the to read about the tables as hes the one that ups the endone when he know ive over done anything ..whats got me stumped is why a neurologist report would state i go numb in the upper limbs (hands- when i go to use them) yet noone seems to read it a that has been something that never happened before the accident, only eve after
noone will refer me to another neurologist nor will they send me for another mri or ctc scan to se if it the same or getting wore o i only have the one that is 2005 report
i can understand where you mean by specifics, and no they wont contact your dr's unless they absolutely have to ,, i really hope im worrying about nothing ,,, and that once it properly addressed in a letter albeit with no new specialist reports
apologies for the essay,,, thankyou that does help with that above advice ,,, hopefully my dr doesnt mind too much i know my last one thought very little of them so was inclined to overstate information,
|
|
|
Post by murphy on Apr 13, 2017 7:05:08 GMT 7
At review, everyone is assessed against the 2012 Tables. The old Tables are no longer used to assess anyone.
So far, all of our members under review have had a JCA as part of the review. For some, this has been done over the telephone; for others, it has been in-person. One member has then been referred on for an assessment with a government appointed doctor. This selection for the government doctor appeared to be random.
A JCA will usually call your GP. They don't generally call specialists.
|
|
|
Post by aussieg46 on May 1, 2017 19:42:10 GMT 7
just a bit of an update ,, unfortunately went to my dr he wouldn't write a letter as he took it literally "needed new evidence not old like they already have" and referred me for another ctc,, with this machine being slow and also being in a hurry I was unable to print the dear doctor letter
The person who diagnosed me originally was a neurologist with the “his diagnoses” .. Also in that report being 12 months after the accident that was treated and with any healing that had happened it would not heal any further so deemed it stable and in management phase then,,,, and that any improvement from there would be extremely slim to none with all the healing having has already taken place
is a neurologist is that someone c/link deem considered qualified enough to diagnose after seeing images or does it have to be a physio therapist as when it comes to range of movement and diagnoses ,, nowhere does it say in the tables and or the appeals 3 page printout that a neurologist is mentioned only physio
I informed him again I needed a letter stating that what was wrong with me had been all the above about working and being more than 2 yr with nothing getting better as he marked permanent on the little sheet of no info for both but was definitely the wrong form a it had minimal information and they needed it all in detail not just a quick brief
even though he was not my dr at the time I did take in all scans and x-rays etc,, but he wasn't happy with that as the ctc pictures didn’t have the results letter with it ,,,but is typed on the solicitors orthopedic surgeon’s report and that it wasn’t recent evidence so is only now deciding to getting his own ,,,,
he asked me how old I was when it happened ,,, young 30's and how old i was now, and say there will be a big difference between the 2 lots of images when the results of the mri come back he will be comparing what has been taken and what is newly taken and only then will he write a "polite" letter as he is of the opinion what got me 10 points neck and back 14 yrs ago and seeing new imaging will most likely attract 20 points for each and to trust him in how he is approaching it and considers it to be the best approach ,,,,
he was also stating that there is no way he can get the evidence they are after as its a long waiting list to see an orthopaedic specialist or even a neurologist and that 21 days for him to help me get what they’re after jut is not doable, however to my knowledge being on it from 2003 they aren’t questioning it medically nor after new stuff if there is none, al they’re after if one can get the same answer from more than 3 different people is if its nothing new and nothing has changed a letter from him is all that is needed saying the 3 things as above
he did state the other day about it was whether i like it or not it its never going to go away it will only get worse and nothing i do or get asked to do will fix anything and that its ho I manage I the only approach I've had for years a much of what I do ends up resulting in flare ups, he laughed when i told him the pain clinic wanted me to do more physio and he said I could do physio hydro tens etc and it will not improve but may help not lose what muscles I have left
As typed prior to this I know when they’ve received all I can get them inclusive of the front page bar-coded letter and once my evidence is in its on the computer waiting flagged for an appointment to be made with the jca
do I lodge the 40 odd last 2yrs pages of medication I’ve gotten from the chemist or do I wait for a medication summary with his letter and let them know he’s sending me for another ctc so he can get a more up to date information for him to write the letter for him to able to comply with their request … might be just me but seems he ha taken it literally and is running with it from there but I reluctant to write it using everything he has sitting there already
I've been given another extension of sorts thank to the public holiday so I have to keep my finger crossed I can get in tomorrow afternoon for the ctc and they if they can possibly do the results with a bit of urgency once that gets done
Will they allow the letter that gets typed before the jca happens to be lodged as evidence with the results of the ctc scan which he want so he can compare the both ,,, if I don’t have it lodged prior to it or is due by date the cut off for all information in the interviews
Unfortunately what seems such a simple straight forward process is something that’s harder than what it should be
He will not put down bronchitis down in the letter just that its there even though that is what triggers the asthma problems a lot more and I end up living on puffers for most of the year
All I am now is more stressed over the outcome of anything and if they won’t accept anything new then its anything will be relatively useless if it cant be used and can see it end up as something that will require me to then have to appeal all due to a dr that wont write a letter with all the info I can throw under his nose …,,, I don’t want a doctor that doesn’t mind printing up a script whenever I feel like it yet doesn’t seem to take much else seriously. It was the same information I showed him 2 weeks ago,,, and he blew it off saying he knew what they were after,,, instead of reading what I had put in front of his nose,,, it was skimmed over and disregarded or that is how it felt, had he of actually read it and re read it and it sink in and not brushed off what I needed in the first place I would be more settled in me knowing I've approached gathering what I need for this review and having run as smooth as my boys claim,
I know I over analyse everything to pieces but imp not comfortable just chilling and trust what his approach… how concerned should I be as unfortunately I don’t live in a large area and we are extremely limited with doctors.. im not deliberately trying to bash him although would have been nice for him to have read what I took in to not continually want to joke around and be serious about stuff when the need arises,
I was given the business card if the JCA needs to contact him as apparently I was told that is normal for them to fax him to call them back and or call him to talk to them although was by the receptionist not him ,,, they call them alot ,,, maybe due to not writing the right information they're after and need to get it verbally !!! but was told to sick them onto him for information
If it can be used do I try to prolong the JCA as he only works 4 day a week 9-3 ,,, even then I can only hope that he prepared to put it in writing what they’re after, what I find upsetting in among it all is I asked 18 months ago to be sent to for another ctc scan and another neurologist visit ,,,NOT for this purpose but to know things were in me and if id gotten worse etc or if its stayed the same … I've asked to get an mri done to find out why I go numb but he’s of the opinion they’re only done when someone want to operate someone …
I know it “just a review” but knowing it’s a reassessment is nothing I am taking lightly and it seems I’m the only one that’s taking it seriously.. Would be lovely to have a dr take it as seriously as I …. Although if it can be used I will be sitting him down with the dear dr letter with the tables and pretty sure his response will be that sending me off for another wasn’t overly important when that isn’t what they were after in the first place and jut a letter tating hat i wrong is till there and thi is how it affects me etc.. I don’t mind not having the points under one table as if I am understanding it right I have the flexibility of being able to find a job whether it one where I will over do it or not and know at the end of it I can have it all settle down and if it takes months then so be it
If it ends up being an appeal will and is successful will it be reinstated as it was when I first claimed under the 30 hrs etc,,, as that is my biggest concern …the work I do now I know isn’t helping anything in me it completely wrong yet it gives me some sense of pride and feeling useful with me not just seeing 4 walls on a daily basis and it has me have to go and associate with others and allows me to overdo it when doing my seasonal work which helps run up my hours for my accounting registration over a 5 yr period
Sorry about another essay but its frustrating living in a rural small town where there isn’t much chance of finding a good doctor, these little country ones when it matters aren’t easy to relate information to
Jut got it all going through my head and nothing wants to be in the right compartment in there,
thanks for reading
what i do know i ill be around for ht next long term person that has to endure this stressful different approach when we are up for review a its nothing like it used to be, it comes across like we a trying to rort the system where one enjoys living under the poverty line ,, all i know is if i want how i am now and know what im missing out on id still want this taken away and work whatever hour a week and have much better quality of life without having to count and justify every penny
|
|
|
Post by nomadic on May 2, 2017 7:07:10 GMT 7
Hi aussieg46. You must be a rorter. Why else would they be doing this to you. NO! they are sub humans who think all welfare should be abolished even though they wouldn't say so in public. Their actions speak louder than words. My advice firstly is to try and stay calm as all will work out if you go about it the right way. As i don't know where you are it's a bit hard to give advice but as just one example I rang a hospital in Melbourne with a number of neurologists and got to see one fairly quickly after the one i knew had a 3 month waiting list. As others have said you need all the medical evidence you can get. Also give legal aid in your state a call as they will at least listen to you for a while and possibly give better advice. Hang in there as all will be fine.
|
|
|
Post by aussieg46 on May 3, 2017 6:58:32 GMT 7
sorry but i really dont get it ,,, got my info yesterday and on the last JCA it states they've been assessed by my doctor as being permanent fully diagnosed fully treated and fully stabilized ,,go figure they need it all over again ,,, like i get it we do need to be reviewed but when its there in black and white and it on their files and want another doctors letter and what he provided was insufficient esat piece of paper
|
|
|
Post by nomadic on May 3, 2017 18:41:33 GMT 7
Nobody gets it 46. Sadly you will have to play along with their senseless game. Be patient and wear them down before they do it to you as is their aim. try and go in person to see them as i always found that the best. It is far easier to lie to you over the phone than in person. Good luck.
|
|
|
Post by aussieg46 on May 3, 2017 20:26:29 GMT 7
apologies for that pot it was a tad bit of a rant when i read what was in among it all and it had already had fully blabla
how on earth if it fully all those can it get better but its the citw tht need to be addressed not what i actually the medical problem ,,, so i can see how theyre working it before it was minimal from the drs with reports readily available to now us having to do their work for them and if we miss something out too bad... just need to ensure all is addressed in his letter however from what he told me it wont be a nice one
i did that this afternoon go in which when it important that is what i do , and the computers were down (what a rare thing to happen} she would not accept the cover bar-coded letter until the letter was done ,,, what i do try to do regardless of what it is if i get told any information id they will write it down ,, seems they're very reluctant to write thing down, as was the same this afternoon..
will be endeavoring to get in to see the dr again a hoping not another 2 weeks as it is dragging on ,, id like it over and done with .... 3rd time lucky fora letter (ha ha)
i realize ifit were not a letter it would be a tdr but this evidence based stuff is beyond ridiculous,,even though the lady i spoke to on the phone asked did i get a form for my dr to fill out i laughed and stated they dont exist ,, although the tdr from here i could have him use,,, pretty well much he jut has to elaborate on what he put on that form along with medication summary
ill do my best not to tress out between now and when his letter is typed or if he from here refuses to do a letter which i got the impression he isnt happy with it and what he gave the should be good enough and having him have to type more down just has one more dr ticked with the antics of them .. strange that how not many dr's love them (sic),,,
atleast i can take in the jca' paperwork for him as he did admit to not seeing many if any done how it has been asked of me , but we are in the sticks.... as for seeing another specialist i doubt hell bother sending me down as its as good a its going to get and hes told me not to bother even taking up getting any needles in the back and or surgery if it were ever put to me
but yep i agree patience i a virtue chin up like we do every other day grit it and put up with it regardless of what it is that is thrown at us
|
|
|
Post by aussieg46 on May 15, 2017 17:21:49 GMT 7
hopefully this with the short one which states spine stiffness he did ask what theyre after and that unable to study or work for more than 30 hours and that it was treated diagnosed and stabilized, hopefully what ive got from is enough although would have been nice to actually ... he knw it had to say it was diagnosed ,,, which it was in the neurologists report fully treated and stabilized,,, trying to figure out how to upload it ,,,im so hoping its sufficient as they have everything on record and this come from a new lot of ct scans and it alot worse than what it was,,, spose if its not what they want i can ask him to add an extra page stating how it affects me as that is what theyre after doctor letter page11 001 1.pdf (381.74 KB) doctors letter pag 2 001.pdf (919.13 KB)
|
|