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Post by bear on Aug 10, 2021 7:03:29 GMT 7
Centrelink orders jobkeeper recipients to pay back $32m, while profitable businesses allowed to keep funds (The Guardian)
Exclusive: government accused of double standards after issuing 11,771 welfare recipients with debt notices due to Covid wage subsidy
The federal government has sent more than 11,000 people Centrelink debt letters worth a total of $32m claiming they were overpaid due to jobkeeper, while resisting calls to claw back money from businesses who got the wage subsidy and then made a profit.Services Australia has told senate estimates 11,771 people have had a debt raised “after the completion of a review of their income support payments and the jobkeeper income that was paid to them by their employer”. “As at 30 April 2021, approximately $32.8m in debt has been raised through completed reviews,” the agency said in response to questions from the Greens senator Rachel Siewert. Debts that have been raised have only been issued to the welfare recipient, not yet recovered. Siewert said the data revealed a double standard between individuals receiving income support and businesses who claimed the wage subsidy. “It is farcical that the government is chasing individuals for so called debts for what will be genuine mistakes in a confusing system when they have given millions to billionaires,” Siewert said. People on welfare benefits are required to report their income from other sources to Centrelink, with the information used to calculate how much money they are eligible to receive. Under its compliance regime, Services Australia staff will check the income reported by the person against tax records and other evidence. It was a now discontinued version of this process that led to the robodebt scandal. Services Australia officials told Senate estimates earlier this year that welfare recipients had an obligation to report jobkeeper as “ordinary income”. “It could impact whether or not they were eligible for a rate of jobseeker or other income support payment or what the correct rate would be,” said compliance general manager Chris Birrer. However, Jeremy Poxon, a spokesperson for the Australian Unemployed Workers Union, said the system was confusing. “Judging by the amount of panicked calls we got about it, we – and the department – know jobkeeper was a confusing mess of a system to access,” he said. Poxon said it was “disgusting, yet sadly unsurprising” that “billionaires like Gerry Harvey have been let completely off the hook” while welfare recipients, who had “engaged with this program in good faith” were targeted by the government. In one case Guardian Australia is aware of, a person who received a welfare debt over their jobkeeper income was later sent correspondence saying they could be forced to pay interest if they delayed payment. That was despite the person asking for the debt to be placed on hold while they sought information about how it was calculated. While it has raised debts against welfare recipients it says were overpaid due to their jobkeeper income, the government has steadfastly refused to claw back jobkeeper payments from businesses who turned a profit. Businesses had to demonstrate either an actual or projected drop in revenue to qualify for the payment, but many did not experience these forecast losses. The billionaire Harvey Norman chairman Gerry Harvey is among those have been criticised for refusing to pay the money back, after raking in $22m and then seeing the company’s profits more than double. Guardian Australia reported in July that Wesley College, a prestigious private school in Melbourne, offered parents fee discounts of 20% last year after pocketing nearly $20m in jobkeeper payments. Guardian Australia has also reported fears that millions of dollars in jobkeeper subsidies have also been used to pay big dividends to company shareholders. A small number of ASX300 companies are among those have pledged to pay back jobkeeper payments, but A Morrison government spokesperson said there was “no double standard” because “both programs have strong compliance frameworks”. “Services Australia takes every step to remind people of their reporting obligations,” the spokesperson said. www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/10/centrelink-orders-jobkeeper-recipients-to-pay-back-32m-while-profitable-businesses-allowed-to-keep-funds
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Post by latindancer on Aug 10, 2021 7:47:08 GMT 7
Disgusting.
If Labour and the Greens play this right, the libs could lose the election on this issue alone.
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Post by itsmylife08 on Aug 10, 2021 14:48:36 GMT 7
Does it surprise me? not in the least Governments are the same the world over, they are just Wolves in sheep's clothing waiting for the opportune moment to pounce on their prey in this instance it's the general public, poor old Joe Soap yet again give them a dose of their own medicine I say. ( Use your imagination ) Cheers Itsa
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Post by bear on Aug 10, 2021 17:01:23 GMT 7
I take umbrage with the quote, because like most who got any of that covid jam; "you don't have to do anything, it's all automatic" said Services Australia. And so I suspect it was; Services Australia paid the ATO who paid the Businesses who paid their employees according to the hurriedly thought out calculus provided by the department via the minister through the Government. Yeah thanks for that Stewart.... Talk about too many cooks in the kitchen!! At the time Scotty was on the verge of having an apoplectic seizure, thinking the rapture was bearing down upon them all from on high.
I think the Government needs another lesson in humility via another class action; as I fail to see how the employee/income support recipient has done anything, other than rejoice at having some minor relief from their poverty, space to breathe through not having to comply with their mutual obligations and trusting their employer would know what was happening and do the right thing. They certainly had very little if anything to do with the amounts they received; I wouldn't think.
Let the employers who obviously didn't follow due process so as not to put their employees into this position repay it. Let them go eat cake.....they can more than afford it in the majority of cases. Cheers bear
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Post by bear on Aug 10, 2021 18:55:41 GMT 7
Originally an SBS article that now has at least three links not working. Thank goodness for National Times on Facebook. Cheers bearExcerpt:- Greens leader Adam Bandt said the ultra-rich had used JobKeeper money to buy private jets, pay out share dividends and increase profits."It is outrageous that the government refuses to make billionaires and big corporations pay back the money that they clearly didn't need to take from the public purse," he told ABC radio on Tuesday."Yet at the same time it is hounding the most vulnerable people in the country who are doing their best to survive the pandemic."Mr Bandt said the government pursued people through the disastrous robodebt scheme, which resulted in a $1.2 billion class action settlement, but refused to take on corporations. Services Australia compliance general manager Chris Birrer said people on JobSeeker and other payments had an obligation to report JobKeeper as income. "It could impact whether or not they were eligible for a rate of JobSeeker or other income support payment or what the correct rate would be," he told a hearing earlier in the year. The Morrison government on Monday shot down a push to force companies turning over more than $10 million to disclose JobKeeper payments. Finance Minister Simon Birmingham said the government didn't want to vilify businesses who were eligible under the broad scheme introduced alongside national lockdowns. m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=362853078746383&id=100181508346876
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Post by nomadic on Aug 10, 2021 20:27:13 GMT 7
Again more proof that this government is the most vile & corrupt ever. It seems some sort of war or revolution is the only way to stop them. Just imagine if they are elected again.
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Post by tasjo on Aug 10, 2021 20:55:58 GMT 7
Without defending all of the businesses that qualified for JobKeeper 1.0 I can see some massive issues with actually trying to do this because of how JobKeeper worked from a business perspective.
From what I understand employees were not paid JobKeeper by Centrelink - hence the reporting of it as 'ordinary income'
Employers who were successfully registered for Jobkeeper 1.0 due to a drop in revenue (and other criteria) then paid the employees whose hours had reduced by a particular percentage. Those on centrelink payments were then obliged to report the increased income.
The ATO then refunded the employers after the end of month reporting...
Most of which is why as a small business that only started in Jan last year, while I could have appealed receiving JobKeeper, I decided not to! It was all way too complex and I was fairly sure for pensioners would come back and bite in one form or another.
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Post by bear on Aug 11, 2021 7:14:54 GMT 7
Then shouldn't that reporting have seen income support adjusted fortnightly, thereby stopping overpayments?? If the extra from JobKeeper saw people no longer eligible for income support; income support should've been suspended, as per legislation and, if reporting was suspended during the period, then it was a deliberate ploy by goverment to bring this on imo?? Cheers bear
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Post by bear on Aug 11, 2021 17:36:42 GMT 7
This is looking more and more like a stitch up of income support recipients on a grand scale. Cheers bear Excerpt:- In order to receive JobSeeker and other government payments, the recipient must accurately report their income to the agency. This information is then used to determine how much the individual can receive from Centrelink. The more the individual earns in income, the lower the government payment.Inaccurate income reports meant some Aussies received payments they were not entitled to. Some had applied to receive both JobKeeper and JobSeeker at the same time, which was not permitted.A Government Services spokesperson told Yahoo Finance that it was “the responsibility of individuals receiving social security payments to report their earnings accurately”. “Taxpayers only pay recipients what they're eligible for – no more and no less,” the spokesperson said. The agency is by law able to claw back funds if it is found that the individual was ‘overpaid’ through inaccurate or wrong information. “Services Australia takes every opportunity to remind people of this obligation during the application and payment process,” the spokesperson said. “When a person is overpaid, Services Australia will always write to them to let them know how much they were overpaid, and explain why they owe money.” Employment Minister Stuart Robert said recipients needed to state they weren’t receiving both payments. “When JobSeeker and JobKeeper were put into the Australian population, it was quite clear that Australians knew that you could not claim both,” Robert told Parliament. Revelations about the Centrelink debt notices come as the Morrison Government knocked back a bill that would have made public the names of profitable businesses that received JobKeeper. How fortuitous was that?? Can't have information made public that could see businesses vilified by the plebs and see their bottom line affected; can we Scotty?? au.finance.yahoo.com/news/centrelink-aussies-debt-letters-010249200.html
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Post by itsmylife08 on Aug 11, 2021 18:54:12 GMT 7
The word treacherous comes to mind, absolutely no conscience this lot, kick them out at the first opportunity. Cheers Itsa
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Post by bear on Aug 11, 2021 20:11:08 GMT 7
And here I was thinking "JobSeeker" was simply a rebranding of Newstart; not some special new pandemic payment which it is being alluded to as being, by the minister in the above statement.So; according to this, anyone with part-time employment supplementing their Newstart/JobSeeker, who lost hours because of business closures then weren't entitled to JobKeeper because they were now back on full Newstart/Jobseeker. What am I not seeing here?? Is this really the spin Robert is attempting to put on this issue?? In my mind they're just digging a deeper hole for themselves......... Cheers bear
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Post by tasjo on Aug 11, 2021 20:50:50 GMT 7
Jobseeker is Newstart, youth allowance and a few other payments all rolled into one. During the Jobseeker covid supplement payments, some of the criteria - asset limits, spouse/household income - were either lifted or removed completely.
Jobseeker and JobKeeper were 2 separate covid supplements paid - Jobseeker was only paid to people in receipt of Jobseeker. JobKeeper was the payment paid via employers to employees, some of which may have been receiving centrelink payments.
I do recall it being clear that you couldn't receive the Jobseeker supplement and JobKeeper. However, whether centrelinks systems were capable of matching with the ato until the end of the year when group certificates were issued is another thing entirely. Last year single touch payroll wasn't mandatory for all businesses so that may also have contributed to the issue.
I would imagine there would also have been a whole lot of employers who were dealing with employees on centrelink for the first time as well due to either jobseeker or JobKeeper.
But, I do think it was made clear that the income needed to be reported. The people I know of who reported correctly had payments adjusted accordingly. So, in my limited experience of this, if there was an issue, it would appear most likely incorrect or mismatched income reporting resulting in a debt.
Sorry if I'm saying what is already known, just thought it was worth summarising.
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Post by bear on Aug 12, 2021 6:51:27 GMT 7
Nice summary tasjo !! Everything I've posted is mostly guesswork. Without firsthand experience it's difficult to know too much about how it worked; though I knew you could only claim one or the other. Re the employers you mentioned....... If employees had been receiving Jobseeker from Centrelink and were working set hours; what is your belief on how their income would've been topped up?? Should the employee have told Centrelink of the lost hours and had full payment reinstated with a top-up from their boss out of JobKeeper funds to the prior level of their wages?? Do you know?? Because in that scenario people would've gotten some from both payments. The third quote says it all really; you were right on the money. If it was that difficult to appeal for businesses; I can only imagine how complex it must've been to distribute correctly to those in need. Cheers bear
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Post by bear on Aug 12, 2021 8:03:09 GMT 7
I remember from the time many people questioning eligibility, and being told by accountants and the ATO to apply and if they satisfied requirements they'd receive a payment. It's also quite a stretch to expect small businesses unfamiliar with self assessment processes to come up with correct figures, because it hasn't exactly worked out well for people claiming child care subsidies; and they do it all the time and are quite familiar with the process. Wouldn't it be nice to have consistency across departments and have Centrelink consider whether the applicant made an honest mistake in reporting. Cheers bear When Hassan lost work, the ATO said to apply for JobKeeper. A year later, he received an eye-watering bill The ATO is attempting to claw back thousands of dollars from migrants who were erroneously paid the JobKeeper wage subsidy at the height of the pandemic.
When the coronavirus pandemic first hit and Victoria went into lockdown last year, Hassan Jaber’s work as an Uber driver dried up almost overnight.
Like millions of Australians, Mr Jaber was desperate for financial help and went to his tax agent for assistance.
“I asked him if I am eligible for JobKeeper and my tax agency advised me that yes, I am eligible,” he told SBS News.
Mr Jaber said the Australian Taxation Office also advised him to apply, and if he didn’t qualify for the wage subsidy, he would be refused payments.
“The call with the ATO took 35 minutes and they said to just submit the application,” he said.
READ MORE Jenna is paying back more than $1,100 in debt to the federal government. Jenna owes Centrelink more than $1,100 due to a brief welfare overlap. But profitable businesses don't owe a cent
Mr Jaber’s application was accepted, and he was paid the JobKeeper wage subsidy for almost 12 months before receiving a debt letter from the ATO asking for it all back. “I was very shocked, because this is not like a parking ticket of $50 or $100,” he said. The ATO bill amounted to almost $28,000. Mr Jaber was still unemployed and unable to afford the bill, so he appealed the debt. “I said no, I'm not going pay anything, because this is not my mistake, this is not my fault.” After two reviews the ATO agreed to waive the repayments. Employment Minister Stuart Robert said errors can be rectified. “Where the department has made a mistake, then the department generally waives these,” he told SBS News. “But of course every circumstance is different.” Stuart Robert told SBS News that errors made by the ATO can be rectified. But Wallace Huang from Migrant Workers Centre said in many cases the emotional damage has already been done. “it’s devastating for people,” he told SBS News. “It has huge impacts on people's health.” “We're talking about people who have insecure visa status, who have very little in terms of secure income and secure jobs.” Mr Huang said 22 people have approached the Migrant Workers Centre with similar claims, ranging from $8,000 to nearly $18,000. A total of 17 people have had their matters resolved and five still have debt bills to pay. “The majority of people seeking help with JobKeeper overpayments are on temporary protection visas,” Mr Huang said. “They're often independent contractors like Uber drivers and English is not their first language.” Mr Huang said in many cases workers had already started repaying these bills, without realising they could contest it. The centre has helped wipe around $130,000 of JobKeeper debt. In a statement to SBS News, the ATO confirmed it has already recovered almost $140 million in JobKeeper overpayments. While it's waived more than $60 million in what it has labelled "honest mistakes”, it said it is still pursuing another $82 million in funds it claims were wrongly paid. “To claim the JobKeeper payment, employers and other entities claiming needed to self-assess their eligibility… an overpayment occurs where it was incorrectly self-assessed,” it said. In determining whether repayment will be sought, the ATO said it considers whether the applicant made an honest mistake in applying, and whether or not they retained the financial benefit. "Applicants were also able to object to the decision regarding their eligibility as well as the exercise of the discretion to waive the overpayment." www.sbs.com.au/news/when-hassan-lost-work-the-ato-said-to-apply-for-jobkeeper-a-year-later-he-received-an-eye-watering-bill#:~:text=A%20year%20later%2C%20he%20received%20an%20eye-watering%20bill,-
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Post by itsmylife08 on Aug 12, 2021 9:03:42 GMT 7
This appears to be a re-run of the CDC fiasco, when will the Government realize that it has a duty of care to provide correct information, be it verbal or otherwise, it cannot continue or be allowed to pass the buck without accepting responsibility for their actions. As a people, we are held responsible for our actions, why not the Government in their Duty of Care !!! guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/1/3/4/10Cheers Itsa
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