Robotdebt Royal Commission News

[nomadic]

Former government services minister Stuart Robert was warned Robodebt scheme could lead to civil action
By Ciara Jones
Posted 2h ago2 hours ago, updated 2h ago2 hours ago
Stuart Robert holds his arms out on Q+A.
For the first time, the commission was shown a brief sent to then government services minister Stuart Robert that warned the scheme could lead to civil action.
Help keep family & friends informed by sharing this article

Link copied
COPY LINK
SHARE
Former government services minister Stuart Robert was warned continuing the illegal Robodebt scheme could lead to civil legal action, a royal commission has heard.

Key points:
The commission was shown a brief sent to then government services minister Stuart Robert summarising advice that found the scheme was unlawful
Misfeasance in public office was a civil action that could be brought against someone in public office who unlawfully exercised their power
Commissioner Catherine Holmes questioned Ms Musolino about her knowledge of two sets of legal advice
Public hearings in Brisbane are focusing on criticism of the controversial Coalition-era debt recovery scheme from media and tribunals after it was implemented in 2015.

Annette Musolino, currently the chief operating officer at Services Australia, formerly the Department of Human Services (DHS), is giving evidence at the commission over two days.

As former chief counsel of the DHS – one of two government agencies that helped deliver the program – Ms Musolino had key oversight of departmental legal matters, including Robodebt.

For the first time, the commission was shown a brief sent to the then government services minister in November 2019, summarising advice from the solicitor-general that found the scheme was unlawful.

The brief, which was signed by Mr Robert, said: "The continued administration of the program in its current form may amount to misfeasance in public office."

"This is because the continued administration of the program … would contribute to an argument that the Department had been raising and recovering debts in bad faith."

Counsel assisting, Angus Scott KC, told the commission misfeasance in public office was a civil action that could be brought against someone in public office who unlawfully exercised their power, including being recklessly indifferent to the likelihood of causing harm to the plaintiff.

Mr Scott asked Ms Musolino: "Would you agree … there was a risk of an action of misfeasance in public office if the scheme was not brought to an end, at least in respect of the use of averaging?"

"Yes," Ms Musolino said. "I think I would have understood that potential risk."

'No doubt that there were massive failures'
The commission heard Ms Musolino had "no doubt" the scheme had "massive problems" when it started getting media attention in late 2016 and early 2017.

The former government continued to defend the scheme despite growing criticism.

"There's no doubt that anyone who was working in the Department of Human Services or frankly anyone working in government at that time … there was no doubt that there were massive failures in how this was implemented," Ms Musolino said.

"From the letters to the online portal, the content of the letters, the extent of training provided to staff, the extent of understanding across government of what was occurring.

"… all that media [coverage] told us is there were massive problems here."

The Robodebt royal commission, explained
The federal government has called a royal commission into the unlawful debt recovery scheme. Here's what you need to know.

Anthony Albanese gestures as he speaks in front of the Australian, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander flags.
Read more
Commissioner Catherine Holmes questioned Ms Musolino about her knowledge of two sets of legal advice delivered to senior department officials in 2014 and 2017 that found Robodebt's central method, income averaging, did not meet legal requirements.

Ms Musolino told the commission it was not her role to determine whether legal advice behind a budget proposal, such as Robodebt, was "sufficient".

Commissioner Holmes asked: "Did you look at the 2017 advice?"

"I think I read it at the time, yes," Ms Musolino replied.

Commissioner Holmes said: "Did you see anything in it which actually supported the notion that averaging would suffice for the requirements of the legislation?"

Ms Musolino said: "It was pretty short advice but I had no reason to second guess what was in it."

Commissioner Holmes continued: "As a lawyer, you didn't apply your own critical legal senses to it at all?"

Want more local news?
We offer tailored front pages for local audiences in each state and territory. Find out how to opt in for more Queensland news.

The Queenslander sign in the NSW-Queensland border town of Wallangarra in Queensland on October 8, 2020.
Read more
Ms Musolino replied: "We're a service delivery agency … when we're given a program to deliver or implement, we don't generally look behind how that decision was made or designed or the legalities, we look to implement it in a lawful fashion."

"As far as I was aware we had a government budget measure we had to implement and deliver and so there was nothing in my reading of that material [the legal advice] that came to me that alarmed me."

The commission will hear from former Liberal ministers Christian Porter and Alan Tudge later this week.

Mr Tudge's former media adviser, Rachelle Miller, will give evidence tomorrow.

The inquiry continues.

www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-30/robodebt-scheme-government-royal-commission-fraud-stuart-robert/101900516

[nomadic]

Further to the above. New jails are now underway to house all those guilty. With a moat surrounding them full of crocodiles. Prison staff will be robodebt victims who have shared in all the guilty parties' fortunes. Plus wages paid for by all members of the LNP out of their own pockets.

[nomadic]

Robodebt victims' details released to media in bid to deter them from speaking out, royal commission told
By Ciara Jones
Posted 7h ago7 hours ago, updated 4h ago4 hours ago
Former media adviser in office of the Minister of Human Services, Rachelle Miller at Robodebt royal commission
Former media adviser Rachelle Miller said the government adopted a counter-narrative strategy in the "more friendly media" to hit back at criticism of the scheme.(ABC News)
Help keep family & friends informed by sharing this article

Link copied
COPY LINK
SHARE
Personal information of Robodebt victims was released to journalists in an effort to deter them from speaking out, a former media adviser to ex-human services minister Alan Tudge has told a royal commission.

Key points:
Rachelle Miller said in response to growing criticism, the government adopted a counter-narrative strategy in the "more friendly media"
The commission heard Ms Miller's crisis strategy also included tracking down debts from when Labor was in office
She said the government released personal information of Robodebt "case studies" to the media to deter more people from speaking out
Rachelle Miller was Mr Tudge's senior media adviser while he was in charge of the illegal debt recovery program as the human services minister in the Turnbull government from 2016 to 2017.

She handled media inquiries when concerns over the scheme's central method, income averaging, were first raised in the media in late 2016.

The Coalition government repeatedly defended the program, which continued to operate until 2019, falsely accusing hundreds of thousands of welfare recipients of owing money to Centrelink.

Ms Miller said there was a "proliferation" of negative media coverage in late 2016 that was "growing and growing and growing" but it was "predominantly in the left-wing media".

"We weren't too concerned because it wasn't unusual that the left-wing media were attacking us regarding social policy," she said.

Ms Miller told the commission in response to growing criticism, the government adopted a counter-narrative strategy in the "more friendly media" such as the tabloids.

Counsel assisting Justin Greggery KC asked Ms Miller: "You said the media demand was very high … the media was generally adverse … it was heavily critical. Would you say that… the media situation was in crisis mode?"

"Yes, but I didn't think it was not able to be shut down," she replied.

"The prime minister [Malcom Turnbull] was unhappy with the escalating media issue around this [Robodebt] … we were trying to contain it," she said.

"I developed a crisis media strategy at the request of the minister – he was very firm with me that I needed to shut this story down.

"That involved … placing stories with the more friendly media, the right-wing media, about how the Coalition was actually catching people who were cheating the welfare system."

Alan Tudge stands in front of media in Canberra
Former human services minister Alan Tudge was in charge of the debt recovery program from 2016 to 2017.(ABC News: Nick Haggarty)
She said she received feedback from the then prime minister's office that the narrative of "cracking down on welfare cheats" was playing well in marginal "key" seats, like Western Sydney.

"But we had a continued crisis in the left-wing media that wasn't seeming to die down," she said.

Personal details released to media
Ms Miller said the government released personal information of Robodebt "case studies" to the media to deter more people from speaking out.

"The minister requested the file of every single person who appeared in the media … you could see the exact transactions that they'd had with Centrelink.

"This would send a clear message … that maybe consider it [going to the media] twice.

"There were less people speaking out in the media which was our intention."

The Robodebt royal commission, explained
The federal government has called a royal commission into the unlawful debt recovery scheme. Here's what you need to know.

Anthony Albanese gestures as he speaks in front of the Australian, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander flags.
Read more
The commission heard Ms Miller's crisis strategy also included tracking down debts from when Labor was in office that were "not detected because they did not take the integrity of the welfare system seriously".

"The minister was really, really very forceful about obtaining these case studies. He was very adamant with me that I needed to hunt as many case studies as I could," Ms Miller said.

"That was to throw back to Labor that: 'You would let these guys go'."

Last year, Ms Miller received a $650,000 settlement from the Commonwealth after she alleged abuse by Mr Tudge during her employment under him and former government minister Michaelia Cash.

'That's exactly how the system is supposed to be working'
Ms Miller also told the commission a young staffer in then-minister Darren Chester's office approached her for help after receiving a Robodebt notice from her days as a student.

"That alarmed me a little bit because I thought if a ministerial adviser has only been able to work out her debt from having kept very accurate records, I did start to wonder how the bulk of people who received welfare payments were going to manage that."

Ms Miller referred the staffer's matter onto Mr Tudge's office and her debt was wiped once she provided pay-slip information.

She said she raised the matter with Mr Tudge and his response was: "That's exactly how the system is supposed to be working."

Want more local news?
We offer tailored front pages for local audiences in each state and territory. Find out how to opt in for more Queensland news.

The Queenslander sign in the NSW-Queensland border town of Wallangarra in Queensland on October 8, 2020.
Read more
Ms Miller said there was a "distinct lack of empathy" from the government to "a person who was receiving a Centrelink notice".

"It didn't happen because that was the culture of the place," she said.

"You would think that working in human services, social services, that the first person you think about is the recipient but that was not the case throughout the Coalition government."

She said she reached out to the royal commission to make a submission.

"We must ensure we learn from this significant failure of public policy," she said in her written statement.

'It's a disgrace'
Former acting national manager of Department of Human Services Bevan Hannan at Robodebt royal commission
Bevan Hannan said legal concerns should have been addressed earlier.(ABC News)
Former acting national manager of customer and media engagement at the Department of Human Services (DHS), Bevan Hannan, gave evidence late Tuesday afternoon.

He said he became "quite upset" watching earlier public hearings because "it became apparent that people [at the department] knew that aspects of the Robodebt scheme were unlawful".

"There was an opportunity in January 2017 to put a stop to it," Mr Hannan said.

"It was a time for the department to put the cards on the table and that didn't happen.

"As a public servant, I'm livid that there was an opportunity … to say there was a problem and it wasn't said. It's a disgrace."

Mr Tudge will appear at the inquiry tomorrow.

www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-31/qld-robodebt-scheme-government-royal-commission-alan-tudge/101910064

[nomadic]

Alan Tudge tells Robodebt royal commission he was not responsible for department's failures to ensure scheme was lawful
By Ciara Jones
Posted 7h ago7 hours ago, updated 4h ago4 hours ago
Alan Tudge at the commission. A screen grab taken from the stream.
Alan Tudge is appearing at the royal commission for the first time today. (Supplied)
Help keep family & friends informed by sharing this article

Link copied
COPY LINK
SHARE
Former cabinet minister Alan Tudge has told a royal commission he was not responsible for his department's failure to ensure the Robodebt scheme was lawful.

Key points:
Alan Tudge was a human services minister in the Coalition government led by Malcolm Turnbull
Mr Tudge told the commission it was "unfathomable" that a secretary in his department would not raise legal issues with him
The inquiry, led by Commissioner Catherine Holmes, continues in Brisbane this week
Mr Tudge, who was human services minister in the Turnbull government between 2016 and 2017, is the third ex-Coalition government minister to give evidence at the royal commission into the unlawful Centrelink debt recovery program.

He was in charge of the scheme when the lawfulness and accuracy of its central method, "income averaging", was first questioned in the media as Robodebt recipients who were being pursued for false debts came forward.

He said its legality "had not crossed my mind until I read about it in the newspaper, I think, following the federal court case [in 2019]".

Mr Tudge said he was aware income averaging "had potential" to "inaccurately" represent the income of welfare recipients in January 2017.

The now-shadow cabinet minister repeatedly defended the program, which continued to operate until 2019 and wrongfully accused hundreds of thousands of welfare recipients of owing money to Centrelink.

A letter from Centrelink with the figure $2,350.44 on it.
The current block of Robodebt royal commission hearings will continue until the end of the week.(ABC News: Chris Gillette)
Amid growing criticism and negative publicity, Mr Tudge told the commission he relied on knowledge that "income averaging" had been used for decades by "successive governments" and that it was the responsibility of department officials to confirm its legal basis.

Counsel assisting Justin Greggery KC put to Mr Tudge that it would have been a "simple thing to ask for advice" to answer questions raised about whether the scheme was lawful.

"This was a program which had been through a cabinet process, and … a cabinet process is a rigorous process which always has a legal overlay through it," Mr Tudge said.

“So the Department of Social Services' lawyers would have had to form a view that it was lawful … the Attorney-General's Department has to form a view in relation to the legalities of this initiative.

"I also became aware, I think at that stage, that income averaging … had been used … as far back as 1990. It had been used for decades under successive governments.

"My focus was very much on … the administration of the scheme and how should that be addressed."

Mr Tudge added that he never asked for – or saw – legal advice and that the department secretary [Kathryn Campbell] had a legal obligation to raise such "significant" issues with him.

"It's unfathomable for a secretary to be implementing a program which he or she would know to be unlawful," Mr Tudge told the commission.

"I would not expect a secretary to raise with me, 'Hey … there's question that this scheme might not be lawful,' … she's going to solve that question before raising it with the minister," he said.

'I don't know this silk'
Mr Tudge was then asked about a 2017 national law conference attended by several officials from the Department of Human Services (DHS), including the secretary and chief counsel, in which eminent silk Peter Hanks KC criticised the Commonwealth's method of raising and recovering debts in a keynote speech.

"What do you expect the secretary and chief counsel to [then] do?" Mr Greggery asked.

"My expectation is that it would make them inevitably contemplate what the [legal] advice was that was given and reassure themselves that what they were doing was still lawful," Mr Tudge replied.

Mr Tudge then said he did not know who Mr Hanks was.

"I don't know this silk," he said.

Catherine Holmes speaking into a microphone.
Catherine Holmes AC SC is leading the royal commssion. (Supplied)
Commissioner Catherine Holmes interjected: "You didn't study … Hanks Constitutional Law at law school? It's the only book I had."

"You're testing my memory now, Commissioner," Mr Tudge replied.

Commissioner Holmes said: "I think I probably have to remember further back than you, Mr Tudge, and I can remember that textbook."

"I don't recall … I did study constitutional law. I simply don't know the name," Mr Tudge said.

Mr Tudge went on to say it was his expectation that the DHS secretary and chief counsel would refer the speech to department lawyers.

'I was responsible for the implementation of the scheme'
Mr Greggery put to Mr Tudge that if it was a "failure" of the secretary and chief counsel not to take that step, it was "a failure for which you are responsible as minister".

Mr Tudge replied: "I don't know that you can say that."

"But you understand the concept of ministerial responsibility?" Mr Greggery asked.

"In the broad scheme … yes, but to say, the way that you put it, that I was responsible … I don't think is right," Mr Tudge said.

"Surely that falls under the broad umbrella of ministerial responsibility, where when there is a shortcoming in the department, the minister is ultimately responsible for that?" Mr Greggery continued.

"I accept and understand deeply the Westminster concept of ministerial responsibility … I don't accept the proposition that I was responsible for an individual not making a choice to not raise a matter," Mr Tudge said.

"I was responsible for the implementation of the scheme."

He later accepted Mr Greggery's proposition that he was also responsible for the program's "lawful implementation".

Mr Tudge repeatedly said that as a junior minister, he did not have the "authority" to stop the scheme.

Commissioner Holmes asked: "Did you ever actually say to … the prime minister Mr [Malcolm] Turnbull that consideration should be given to stopping this program?"

Mr Tudge replied: "No."

'Most people earn the same amount every fortnight'
At one point, the former minister told the commission that "most people earn the same amount every fortnight."

Commissioner Holmes said: "Well, in the public service they do. I'm not sure when they're on a benefit that that's really true."

The Robodebt royal commission, explained
The federal government has called a royal commission into the unlawful debt recovery scheme. Here's what you need to know.

Anthony Albanese gestures as he speaks in front of the Australian, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander flags.
Read more
Mr Tudge was asked about evidence given by his former press secretary Rachelle Miller on Tuesday, who said that he requested access to the private Centrelink files of all Robodebt recipients who had spoken out.

Ms Miller told the commission their personal information was then released to some journalists in a bid to "correct the record" in the media and deter more victims from coming forward.

Mr Tudge confirmed he approved the release of personal details but said he was "confident" it was "lawfully done".

Commissioner Holmes said it "seemed to be a terrible idea from start to finish" and "made very clear that if somebody wanted to criticise Centrelink in public, they were taking a risk."

"That was certainly not my intent," Mr Tudge said. "In hindsight, I would have preferred that the media was corrected in a different way."

Want more local news?
We offer tailored front pages for local audiences in each state and territory. Find out how to opt in for more Queensland news.

The Queenslander sign in the NSW-Queensland border town of Wallangarra in Queensland on October 8, 2020.
Read more
Ms Miller also said she developed a crisis media strategy to try and shut down the scandal, which involved planting stories in the "friendly, right-wing media" about how the Robodebt scheme was "catching welfare cheats".

Mr Tudge said he did not recall whether he agreed with, or approved, the media strategy.

"My ambition at the time was to deeply understand what was going on and to ensure that any issues which I had uncovered had been fixed, rather than focus on the media strategy," he said.

Mr Tudge will continue his evidence tomorrow morning.

His former cabinet colleague, then-social services minister Christian Porter, is also due to front the commission

tomorrow.https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-01/qld-robodebt-scheme-government-royal-commission-fraud/101910062

[latindancer]

What scum.
Bobbing and weaving at every turn; never accepting any responsibility even when their noses are virtually rubbed in it.
I feel utter disgust reading responses by self-serving creatures like Tudge.

I live in Brisbane, and hadn't realized the Royal Commission was being held here..... I wonder if the public is allowed in ?
Trouble is, I would find it difficult to not snort with derision at some responses.

[itsmylife08]

Former cabinet minister Alan Tudge has told a royal commission he was not responsible for his department's failure to ensure the Robodebt scheme was lawful.

A minister is ultimately responsible for all actions by a ministry because, even without knowledge of an infraction by subordinates, the minister approved the hiring and continued employment of those civil servants. If misdeeds are found to have occurred in a ministry, the minister is expected to resign.

Wrong Mr Tudge and the same goes for the rest of your associates in Parliament over the years who were aware of it being unlawful, thats why every government has it's own lawyers to ask for advice.

The gospel according to Mr Tudge appears to suggest that it was the inmates running the asylum and not the ministers who had taken their hypocritical oath.

Mr Tudge also suggested that income averaging had been used by as far back as 1990, and had been used for decades by previous Governments.

If that is true then maybe this royal commission should widen its scope to take in that said period of time. Sadly it appears that the whole system is rotten to its core, not only now but for many decades gone by...

Weed them out one by one, and if found guilty, jail the lot of them without exception because thats exactly what would happen if we were found guilty of similar offenses...

Cheers Itsa

[nomadic]

r social services minister Christian Porter takes responsibility for Robodebt failures at royal commission
By Ciara Jones
Posted 5h ago5 hours ago, updated 2h ago2 hours ago
Christian Porter is seen on a screen. His hands are out.
Former social services minister Christian Porter took some responsibility for the scheme.(AAP: Darren England)
Help keep family & friends informed by sharing this article

Link copied
COPY LINK
SHARE
Former Liberal minister Christian Porter has told the Robodebt royal commission he takes responsibility for the failed scheme.

Key points:
Christian Porter was social services minister between 2015 and 2017
Former human services minister Alan Tudge earlier said only Mr Porter or then prime minister Malcom Turnbull could have stopped the scheme
Public hearings continue in Brisbane tomorrow
As social services minister between 2015 and 2017, Mr Porter, and then-minister for human services Alan Tudge, oversaw the Centrelink welfare debt recovery scheme's implementation.

The commission has previously heard his department had received internal legal advice in 2014 and 2017 that showed the scheme was unlawful.

Officials never took action or escalated the advice and the scheme continued until 2019, wrongly accusing hundreds of thousands of welfare recipients of owing money to the government.

Mr Porter said he never saw legal advice during his time as minister and agreed with senior counsel assisting Justin Greggery KC that department officials had a "duty" to bring it to his attention.

"I was unaware of all the comings and goings of this issue," he told the commission in Brisbane.

The commission heard Mr Porter met with Department of Human Services (DHS) officials and asked whether there was "sound legislation underpinning … the system as it was operating".

"I firmly had in my mind that I put this question to people and that they'd responded affirmatively," he said.

"I can't recall who … but a departmental person assured me … I can't recall if it was DHS or DSS but someone did. It happened and we moved on."

Catherine Holmes asking a question at the commission.
Commissioner Catherine Holmes asked Mr Porter whether he took responsibilty for the scheme. (Supplied)
Commissioner Catherine Holmes said: "You see, Mr Porter, everyone says it [Robodebt's failures] was really someone else's doing and it's a bit hard to get to the bottom of whose doing it was."

"Do you take any responsibility for this?" she asked.

"I do. And I look back on this and I see myself through the correspondence getting quite close at points to taking the next step of inquiry and I didn't do that," he replied.

"I wish now that I had."

Talking points 'inaccurate' and 'untrue'
Mr Porter also admitted he gave "inaccurate" and "untrue" information to the media while defending the scheme after Robodebt recipients came forward in late 2016 and early 2017.

The commission heard department officials gave Mr Porter a list of talking points for media interviews.

They included: "We are confident in the online compliance system" and "80 per cent of the instances of compliance letters going out, there has been a debt raised for the Commonwealth and … has been an overpayment."

Commissioner Catherine Holmes said: "Was that in your talking points? Because it wasn't, of course, true."

"There were lots of things in those talking points that through this [royal commission] process and information from my lawyers provided me from this process, I now understand were inaccurate or untrue," Mr Porter said.

"I was frustrated because I'd gone out and undertaken earlier media based on what were talking points and oral conversations with DHS people or relayed to me … the level of confidence they had [in the scheme] was extraordinarily high.

"And the early media that I did was relaying those talking points and the confidence levels.

"I placed enormous reliance on the … figure that was in those talking points which was about the percentage of complaints.

"I felt that I'd been disserved in terms of the information that I'd been given to go out and do large national media on the issue."

Mr Porter said he became increasingly frustrated with a lack of clarity from bureaucrats about how the scheme was operating.

"As we went further into … interrogating what was actually occurring, it seemed to my office and I that the processes hadn't been very well designed," Mr Porter said.

Mr Porter said he relied on knowledge that the program "would have been scrutinised as to the issue of whether it required legislative change or not" and had gone through a "rigorous" cabinet process.

He added that it was "fairly accurate to say that I did not understand precisely how a debt was ultimately being issued and completed" but he thought there were "obviously clunky" and "easily fixable" elements of the scheme.

'I recall the prime minister being concerned'
Earlier, former minister Alan Tudge wrapped up his testimony after a marathon hearing on Wednesday.

Mr Tudge said he was aware "income averaging" could cause "inaccurate" welfare debts but he believed the method had been used for decades and so it did not cross his mind "that it could possibly be unlawful".

Alan Tudge at the commission. A screen grab taken from the stream.
Former minister Alan Tudge says only Christian Porter or Malcolm Turnbull could have stopped the scheme.(Supplied)
He revealed he met with then-prime minister Malcolm Turnbull, Mr Porter and some department officials when media criticism of the scheme escalated in early 2017.

"I recall the prime minister being concerned about what happened, why did this system go awry?" Mr Tudge said.

"I remember him reflecting on the fact that there needs to be more rigorous testing before a system is rolled out."

Mr Greggery asked: "Did you present a rosy picture, or did you tell him [the prime minister] all of the real concerns you had, which obviously didn't include lawfulness and accuracy?"

"I don't think we went through in detail how the overall system works, my recollection is we very much went into what went wrong with the implementation," Mr Tudge replied.

Want more local news?
We offer tailored front pages for local audiences in each state and territory. Find out how to opt in for more Queensland news.

The Queenslander sign in the NSW-Queensland border town of Wallangarra in Queensland on October 8, 2020.
Read more
Mr Tudge repeatedly said only Mr Porter or Mr Turnbull had the authority to stop the scheme.

Mr Greggery put to Mr Tudge that "it would have been prudent" to have obtained legal advice on the "contested questions of accuracy and lawfulness" circulating in the media at the time.

"Definitely," Mr Tudge agreed.

Mr Turnbull has not been called to appear at the commission. The third block of public hearings concludes tomorrow.


www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-02/robodebt-scheme-government-royal-commission-christian-porter/101922706

[nomadic]

Further, I just heard Barry Cassidy on the ABC who is following it and he said it will go down as the most scandalous gov action in history as well as it showing how the 'friendly" media were used in trying to cover it up. Many things I and others on the forum have been saying for years. GGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWLLLLLLLLLLL. Scum is to kind a word itsa. The lowest form of human life ever, anywhere. Others equal but none worse.

[latindancer]

The huge irony is that small people are often penalized and then told "ignorance of the law is no excuse"...yet

creatures like these deny knowledge, claim ignorance, and then point vaguely in all directions.

[nomadic]

Todays episode of crimes against humanity.




Taxpayer-funded review that found 'flaws' in Robodebt scheme was discontinued by Department of Human Services, royal commission told
By Ciara Jones
Posted 6h ago6 hours ago, updated 5h ago5 hours ago
Shane West giving evidence. Still taken from stream.
PricewaterhouseCoopers consultant Shane West told the commission a review into Robodebt was never finished.(Supplied)
Help keep family & friends informed by sharing this article

Link copied
COPY LINK
SHARE
A taxpayer-funded external review of the failed Robodebt scheme found "a lot of flaws" but a full report was never completed after the government said it was not required, a royal commission has heard.

Key points:
The commission heard from a consultant engaged by Department of Human Services in 2017
He told the commission the review instigated by the department was never finished
Today is the final day of the third block of hearings in Brisbane
Shane West, a partner at consulting giant PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), said in early 2017 then Department of Human Services (DHS) secretary Kathryn Campbell engaged the firm to review the Coalition-era budget-savings program that became known as Robodebt.

Around that time, the Commonwealth ombudsman was investigating the Centrelink debt recovery scheme after questions were raised about the legality of its central method, "income averaging".

The PwC contract was worth almost $1 million.

Mr West told the hearing the firm "put considerable time" into developing a 70-page detailed draft report but mid-year, the DHS said it was no longer "required" and a "visual presentation" given to then-human services minister Alan Tudge would suffice.

He said he does not recall how PwC was informed the department no longer needed the report or any reasoning provided.

"We weren't able to find any [texts] or email correspondence to that effect," Mr West said.

After receiving that direction from the department, he said PwC ditched its investigation into the scheme entirely.

Counsel assisting Justin Greggery KC said: "Surely, you must, as the lead on the project, have gone back to Kathryn Campbell and said: 'You've paid for the report, we've done the work, why don't you want it?'"

"No, we didn't," Mr West said.

Commissioner Catherine Holmes asked: "You didn't do anything to confirm with them [the department] that it did not need to be delivered, you just waited for them to pay the bill and took that as confirmation?"

"No … my assumption, but I can't recall … is there must have been a conversation between the department and us," he said.

"It seems a very laissez-faire approach to carrying out a contract. Does PwC usually just rely on a word that's not documented anywhere?" Commissioner Holmes asked.

Mr West replied: "I can't speak for the firm at large, but..."

"Do you?" she asked.

"Sometimes," Mr West said.

Commissioner Holmes said: "One possible view is that there's been a … nod and a wink, a 'don't give us it, thanks' [from DHS] somewhere along the line, Mr West, you can see how a cynic might wonder about that?"

Mr West said: "I can, yes … but I cannot recall ever being provided such a nod and a wink."

Commissioner Holmes said it was "really remarkable" and "challenges credulity" that nobody in the DHS ever "got wind of the existence" of the report, and, that PwC abandoned it "without any documentation" of how it happened.

"That's my recollection," Mr West said.

Review found 'room for improvement'
The inquiry was shown an interim summary of the audit and Mr West agreed with Mr Greggery that PwC's assessment of the scheme was "a very poor report card" for the department.

"It was woeful, wasn't it?" Mr Greggery asked.

"I think our view was that there were things [in the scheme] that should have been considered but weren't," Mr West said.

"[We found] room for improvement."

Mr West later conceded PwC's review found the system had "a lot of flaws" and there was "clear evidence … savings weren't going to be achieved".

Catherine Holmes speaking into a microphone.
Commissioner Catherine Holmes SC has been holding hearings in Brisbane. (Supplied)
The commission was also shown minutes from a meeting between the DHS and PwC in March 2017, in which department officials suggested that "political criticism [of Robodebt] has lost steam" and the ombudsman's report "will say aspects of the systems are good", a month before it was released.

The commission heard that former senior DHS executive, Jason McNamara, told PwC that the government "only cares about the money" and "doesn't care what they do with compliance to achieve it [budget savings]".

"Other than the department doing something politically silly, they don't care," the minutes show Mr McNamara saying.

'We've got advice that it's not legal'
Former deputy secretary of social security at the Department of Social Services (DSS), Nathan Williamson, has also given evidence.

The inquiry has previously heard a DSS official requested external legal advice from law firm Clayton Utz on the scheme in 2018, which found the use of "income averaging" to raise welfare debts was unlawful, but it was left in draft form and never acted on.

The scheme continued until November 2019, accusing hundreds of thousands of welfare recipients of owing money to Centrelink.

Former branch manager at DSS, Allyson Essex, told the commission last week that she briefed her boss, Mr Williamson, on the advice in August 2018 and raised concerns, saying "I told him … we've gotten advice that it's not legal".

She told the commission, he replied: "It is legal, it's really clear that it's legal."

Mr Williamson told today's hearing he does not recall that conversation with Ms Essex or being briefed on the advice at the time.

"That sort of response does not sound like … the response I would give. That's not my style," he said.

Want more local news?
We offer tailored front pages for local audiences in each state and territory. Find out how to opt in for more Queensland news.

The Queenslander sign in the NSW-Queensland border town of Wallangarra in Queensland on October 8, 2020.
Read more
He agreed with counsel assisting Angus Scott that "once the Clayton Utz advice was received, it was incumbent upon the department to indicate that it was no longer satisfied [that the scheme was lawful]".

He said he was aware of several Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT) findings in 2017 that also ruled the scheme was unlawful.

"My own personal reflection is that more questions [about its legality] should have been asked, including by me," he said.

The commission also heard from former DHS chief in-house lawyer, Maris Stipnieks, who said he never had a "high degree of confidence" about whether "income averaging" was lawful.

Public hearings will continue later this month.


www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-03/qld-robodebt-scheme-government-royal-commission-review-pwc/101900514

[itsmylife08]

It certainly doesn't instill confidence in you as it should, for me it's more like a feeling of the big warm wet one!!!

Cheers Itsa  

[scuzzy]

I love this line where the Commissioner figures out that Price Waterhouse Coopers secretly tipped off the Department of Human Services that the report was going to tell them what they didn't want to hear (Robodebt was illegal) so Department of Human Services secretly told Price Waterhouse Coopers to not give them the report but still paid them the 1 million dollar fee for having completed it:

Commissioner Holmes said: "One possible view is that there's been a … nod and a wink, a 'don't give us it, thanks' [from DHS] somewhere along the line, Mr West, you can see how a cynic might wonder about that?"

Commissioner Holmes said it was "really remarkable" and "challenges credulity" that nobody in the DHS ever "got wind of the existence" of the report, and, that PwC abandoned it "without any documentation" of how it happened.

Commissioner Catherine Holmes asked: "You didn't do anything to confirm with them [the department] that it did not need to be delivered, you just waited for them to pay the bill and took that as confirmation?".

[nomadic]

The Australian politicians, media, and rich corporations are really not one ounce any different from those who control the Democratic Republic of Congo, Guinea Bissau, or Myanmar. Sub-human species. Look human act like cockroaches. For the millionth time on this forum alone. "DEFIES ALL HUMAN DECENCY AND BELIEF". GGGGGRRRRROOOOOWWWWWLLLLL.

[nomadic]

latitudes and false words’: mother of robodebt victim who took own life tells inquiry of government stonewalling
‘It all became very sly. Everyone was lying and covering each other’s backs,’ royal commission hears

Follow our Australia news live blog for the latest updates
Get our morning and afternoon news emails, free app or daily news podcast
Rhys Cauzzo and Jennifer Miller
Rhys Cauzzo with his mother Jennifer Miller, who spoke at the royal commission into the robodebt scheme. Photograph: Royal Commission into the Robodebt Scheme
Supported by
The Green Family Foundation
About this content
Luke Henriques-Gomes Social affairs and inequality editor
Mon 20 Feb 2023 17.02 AEDT
The mother of a robodebt victim who took his own life has told a royal commission that she was stonewalled by the former Coalition government while she sought answers about her son’s welfare debts for more than five years.

The commission is investigating why and how the unlawful Centrelink debt recovery scheme was established in 2015 and ran until November 2019, ending in a $1.8bn settlement with hundreds of thousands of victims.

Jennifer Miller, whose son, Rhys Cauzzo, took his own life on 26 January 2017 while facing Centrelink debts of about $17,000, told the inquiry the government and other authorities had only given her “platitudes” and “false words”.


Miller told the inquiry on Monday she felt vindicated by what had emerged during the royal commission’s investigation.

Banner that reads the royal commission into the robodebt scheme in front of chairs set up before a monitor
Robodebt royal commission: the questions that remain as inquiry’s final public hearings begin
Read more
“I find it extraordinary the lengths they (the Department of Human Services) have been to, to try and get me to stop being so persistent,” Miller told the inquiry.

“It all became very sly. Everyone was lying and covering each other’s backs. Once I saw the all the information … it was both heartbreaking, but also vindicating that we’ve been able to get the truth.”

Miller had written to the former human services minister Alan Tudge – whose response said his department had acted appropriately in the case with only some “minor” administrative errors – as well as the commonwealth ombudsman and Victorian coroner.

The royal commission heard that despite Cauzzo’s pre-existing mental health conditions, there was no “vulnerability indicator” on his Centrelink file. This may have prevented him from receiving those debts and was described by Miller as a “major” rather than “minor” fault.

It was also revealed during the inquiry on Monday that Cauzzo’s debt had been unlawfully calculated using the “income averaging” method, like the hundreds of thousands of other victims of the scheme.

Sign up for Guardian Australia’s free morning and afternoon email newsletters for your daily news roundup
These key facts had been unknown to Miller until the royal commission was able to obtain documents previously withheld from her, the inquiry heard.


Miller said that while her son was “certainly let down by the system”, at times she felt as if she had “let Rhys down” in “not knowing a lot more” about his case.

She described her son as “creative” and, though he had persistent mental health challenges, his suicide came as a great shock to her and those who knew him.

The commission heard that after Cauzzo’s death, Miller found a handwritten note that made reference to suicide with dollar signs and the phrase “debt life” on his fridge. These were pinned alongside five debt notices from the private collection agency Dun and Bradstreet.

skip past newsletter promotion
Sign up to Guardian Australia's Morning Mail

Free daily newsletter
Our Australian morning briefing email breaks down the key national and international stories of the day and why they matter


Privacy Notice: Newsletters may contain info about charities, online ads, and content funded by outside parties. For more information see our Privacy Policy. We use Google reCaptcha to protect our website and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
after newsletter promotion
Banner that reads the royal commission into the robodebt scheme in front of chairs set up before a monitor
Robodebt royal commission: the questions that remain as inquiry’s final public hearings begin
Read more
Miller told the inquiry she has since learned her son had made an earlier suicide attempt after receiving a debt notice in May 2016.

The inquiry was told he received about a dozen letters from Centrelink throughout 2016 and several letters, text messages and about a dozen phone calls from Dun and Bradstreet between November 2016 and January 2017.

The inquiry also heard on Monday that the department did not provide some documents potentially relevant to Cauzzo’s case to the Victorian coroner, which ultimately declined to hold an inquest into his death.

Services Australia, which was previously the Department of Human Services, was lashed in 2021 by a federal court judge overseeing a class action against robodebt for its continued failure to tell Miller whether her son’s debt was unlawful.

Tudge was questioned earlier this month during the inquiry into his handling of Cauzzo’s case.

Christian Porter
Whose doing was it?: what we’ve learned from the robodebt royal commission
Read more
An email from an official who worked as a liaison between Tudge’s office and the department said the minister wanted to investigate the case with the intention of telling Miller he had “investigated the matter, and is confident that the Department has done everything correctly (etc)”.


Tudge told the royal commission he sought the investigation because he was concerned and wanted to know what had happened.

Miller said on Monday the former minister’s response was not a “genuine effort” to “give me any information”.

“As far as I’m concerned they were just false words,” she said.

The royal commissioner, Catherine Holmes, thanked Miller for her courage. “It’s a harrowing story,” Holmes said.

The royal commission cont






www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/feb/20/platitudes-and-false-words-mother-of-robodebt-victim-who-took-own-life-tells-inquiry-of-government-stonewalling?fbclid=IwAR2B0lwm811bAWUs_vOACJLCH-gOneDyD5xv5aVIefrioXOD5nrwKPzAEu8

[nomadic]

The above sums up 100% exactly how politicians treated me. Lies and fob offs and total insincerity when they pretended otherwise.