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Post by will on Feb 25, 2024 13:56:44 GMT 7
I am sure they can't....but I can also believe they can do what they like so....does anyone know about the new tax laws that came into effect Jan in Thailand? They want to tax all money transfered to thailand...thus to thai banks...at the appropriate thai tax rate which by thai standards the dsp is a good wage 4x the minimum wage. Most of us use Wise to transfer funds to thai bank account and apparently they include pensions as taxable. Now I am pretty sure we have tax treaties already with thailand about this stuff so I doubt the Australian government would be happy with the Thai government taxing Australian centrelink payments so they probably can't, although it would be pretty crap to go get a visa renewal and show your bank book for funds and get hit with a tax bill...dunno....everyone says different things. In the end if they did we would just withdraw from aussie atm cards and account to avoid income tax here I suppose....I dont think we have to panic except if you retired here and inherited a house in Australia, sold it, Thailand would tax that money if you transferred it. Any ideas?
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Post by Denis-NFA on Feb 25, 2024 17:45:17 GMT 7
I'm not in Thailand but bear has been following this and I'm sure will chime in.
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Post by genx on Feb 25, 2024 18:23:03 GMT 7
I asked ChatGPT-4. Here is what it had to say. ___________
The new tax regulations that came into effect in Thailand from January 1, 2024, have indeed introduced changes regarding the taxation of foreign-sourced income brought into Thailand. According to these regulations, Thai tax residents are now required to pay income tax on foreign-earned income that is transferred into Thailand, with the tax rate based on Thailand's personal income tax rates, which range from 0% to 35%. This includes salaries, pensions, investment income, rental income, and other forms of foreign-sourced income【6†source】【10†source】.
However, it's important to note that there is an exemption for foreign-sourced income earned before January 1, 2024. This income will not be subject to the new tax rule if it can be demonstrated that the income was earned prior to 2024【7†source】. This clarification is crucial for individuals who have been residing in Thailand and transferring money earned from foreign sources, as it allows them to avoid taxation on income earned before the effective date of the new regulations.
For those concerned about pensions, it appears that pensions are indeed subject to taxation under the new rules, if you are a Thai tax resident for more than 180 days per year. However, if your pension is already taxed in your home country, you might not need to pay Thai income tax due to double taxation agreements between Thailand and your home country【6†source】.
For residents of countries with a double taxation agreement (DTA) with Thailand, such as the United States, specific provisions may exempt certain types of pensions from Thai tax. The details would depend on the specific articles of each DTA【8†source】.
Given the complexities and the potential for significant financial impact, it's advisable for expats and foreign income earners in Thailand to consult with a tax advisor to ensure compliance with the new regulations and to explore strategies for minimizing their tax liabilities. Keeping detailed records and documentation of income and taxes paid in other jurisdictions will be crucial for proving eligibility for exemptions under the new rules and under DTAs. ________________
If the Thai government insists on taxing foreign pensioners, there won't be any foreign pensioners in Thailand.
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Post by bear on Feb 25, 2024 19:38:25 GMT 7
G'day will and no disrespect to genx 's friend ChatGPT-4 but, it will no doubt be compiling from all media sources who surprisingly are all over the shop on this. Firstly the quote; yes you very well may be taxed in that scenario, but only if you transferred it in the year that you received it. High income Thai expats are currently sitting on their last years earning and then transferring it home after a year when it matures tax free. That is possibly the number one reason for this kerfuffle. Personally the last thing I'd be advising anyone to do in this current state of flux is to contact a Thai tax accountant. That's just sticking your head up IMO. My understanding is that in order to tax you they have to provide you with a TIN (Tax Identification Number) and since my pension; or is that social security gets paid every four weeks into a Thai bank account direct from the RBA it should be easy enough for the revenue department to work.it out.. It's also my understanding that in Thai speak both of those nomenclatures are two entirely different animals. Social Security vs Pensions; then there's Annuities. My Thai bank currently withholds tax from the interest on my visa guarantee money, which if I cared about it I could claim back so; if I am infact in the firing line, no.doubt a TIN will be forthcoming and you lot will be the first to know about it. Anecdotally, I am also of the belief that Australian Superannuants cannot remain OS for the full year or they risk paying tha ATO a 30+ % rate. This is quite a bone of contention on other forums and seems to be because their money is "earned" in Australia so they must maintain residency status or pay a higher rate. Residency can be maintained by returning the required amount of time. I think I've read this is for at least six weeks a year. Take a deep breath and wait untill the dust settles!! There's currently no new laws regarding this, and not everyone sees themselves in the firing line. In the meantime, have a read of these two opinions....... Cheers 🐻 "In another forum To pay personal income tax you need a TIN (tax identification number) issued by the revenue department. Without that there can be no income tax liability and, one assumes, most foreign retirees have never heard of a TIN and certainly haven’t got one. The latest move is clearly aimed at currency traders, those involved in stock market trading and anyone holding earned foreign income in an offshore account for over twelve months to avoid tax. They have always been the target." www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/moral-panic-takes-over-the-expats-and-thai-taxation-furor-441317
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Post by genx on Feb 25, 2024 20:07:00 GMT 7
This could be nothing more than a panic, but it confirms what I have thought originally; that there is some risk in sending money to a foreign bank account, because the mere appearance of a transaction can look like taxable income. Also, shrinking tax bases are a global phenomenon, and states are trying to find ways of broadening the tax base. I expect there will be many mistakes along the way.
I'd say at this point, Thailand is around 90% cashless. It's only street vendors that will not accept a debit or credit card. Vietnam, where I live, is around 80% cashless these days, up from around 20% cashless in 2019. My ING card fully reimburses for international transactions made with my debit card, so there is no real reason for me to have the Australian government transfer money to a local bank account. I maintain a small local bank balance, funded with cash deposits, in order to use QR code payments via Momo and other apps here.
I don't expect the Thai government to tax social security recipients, as it would drive them away. But I agree with bear - keep your head down and don't do anything.
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Post by nomadic on Feb 25, 2024 20:32:47 GMT 7
If I transfer money via Wise very randomly how in hell will they know whether it is pension, investment returns, from working online or life savings from 50 years ago. Not worried at all in my situation. But as always. BUT?
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Post by Banjo on Feb 26, 2024 7:32:49 GMT 7
I'm not losing any sleep over it.
One of the nieces has a rich husband, if I see her I'll ask her to ask their accountant.
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Post by will on Feb 26, 2024 10:36:05 GMT 7
If I transfer money via Wise very randomly how in hell will they know whether it is pension, investment returns, from working online or life savings from 50 years ago. Not worried at all in my situation. But as always. BUT? I was informed that the onus of proof rests with you, if you don't have the right paperwork ( and knowing thai bureaucracy we will never have all the right paperwork, at least not the first few times) they will tax it. They will come from the perspective of prove it is not taxable. Originally they tried to make banks responsible but the banks kicked off and said they don't have the technology or resources. I don't know how this will work, everyone says something different, it will probably just be a sword hanging over our heads.
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Post by will on Feb 26, 2024 10:37:46 GMT 7
I'm not losing any sleep over it. One of the nieces has a rich husband, if I see her I'll ask her to ask their accountant. I am not going to lose sleep....or money...there is always a way.
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Post by bear on Feb 26, 2024 17:40:41 GMT 7
If that's the case will I'll come back with Australia's dual tax agreement with Thailand and tell them it's a social security pension with documentation from Centrelink and that even though it is classed as earnings, it already has special tax arrangements in Australia. Fix it if it goes shiny side down or rubber side up, whichever you prefer; but it won't hurt to throw things out there in here. Cheers 🐻
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Post by genx on Feb 26, 2024 19:02:23 GMT 7
If that's the case will I'll come back with Australia's dual tax agreement with Thailand and tell them it's a social security pension with documentation from Centrelink and that even though it is classed as earnings, it already has special tax arrangements in Australia. Fix it if it goes shiny side down or rubber side up, whichever you prefer; but it won't hurt to throw things out there in here. Cheers 🐻 Worst case scenario, you simply do not send the money to Thailand and use an Australian debit card for transactions. I don't see how the Thai government can touch money that is out of the reach if you aren't sending it into the Thai banking system.
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Post by will on Feb 26, 2024 20:10:47 GMT 7
Yeah it's just weird, they don't have the infrastructure, they created a law and haveno idea how to implement it or who it applies to because Thailand have long standing very complicated tax treaties with each nation and can't just create new ones without negotiating with each nation. I am not really worried because I doubt it is actually about taxing foreign social security pensions however as it pertains to immigration law when thai immigration law can be interpreted by the immigration officials as they see fit is another mater.
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Post by Denis-NFA on Feb 27, 2024 14:14:12 GMT 7
Better Start a website - Thailand Taxes Pensioners - then see who responds. In fact, I'll tell the Phils mob to be ready for swarms of pensioners from Thailand...
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Post by bear on Feb 27, 2024 17:39:46 GMT 7
Better Start a website - Thailand Taxes Pensioners - then see who responds. In fact, I'll tell the Phils mob to be ready for swarms of pensioners from Thailand... It might become an ASEAN Tax grab Denis-NFA. There's a new member living in Indonesia asking about the same matter in another thread. Cheers 🐻
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Post by Denis-NFA on Feb 28, 2024 14:32:32 GMT 7
Better Start a website - Thailand Taxes Pensioners - then see who responds. In fact, I'll tell the Phils mob to be ready for swarms of pensioners from Thailand... It might become an ASEAN Tax grab Denis-NFA. There's a new member living in Indonesia asking about the same matter in another thread. Cheers 🐻 Yes, I saw that bear and yes, we are all going to have to be careful how we structure our finances. The ASEAN countries know they are attractive to pensioners so its going to be interesting. Is there any room left on Pitcairn Islands?
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