permanent portabilty- risk being put onto newstart

[tobefree]

I have been on the DSP for 10 years. I have been constantly in and out of hospitals and at doctors surgeries and specialists.
There is very poor medical care available for my condition in Australia. My illness is debilitating.
I have found several treatment options available in America. The treatment will be self funded but it is surprisingly affordable and the success rates are very high. The treatment period is said to be one year.

I thought the amount of time I could leave Australia for was 13 weeks and was just shocked to read its been reduced to 6. I contacted Centrelink to find out about permanent portability. They told me I need to have my doctor fill in forms and then have a work capacity assessment. Centrelink said that if I wish to go ahead I will be risking my pension altogether because I could be deemed ineligible for the DSP under the new rules. I would then be moved onto Newstart Allowance.

The whole thing seems risky and like a game of Russian Roulette. I feel like a prisoner. I would have cost tax payers so much money over the years through hospital and medical treatment which was useless. Now I want to pay for medical care overseas which could significantly improve my situation but the government wants to put obstacles in my way.

I was wondering if anyone has applied for permanent portability and what the process was like? Were you rejected or successful? I would really appreciate any more information about the process.

[baranghope]

UP as we call it is a dangerous application for some DSPers . . . most of those who have applied have been knocked back on having 20 points of severity in one class of disabling condition, but they have not been booted off the DSP. But that risk equals death to many of us: on the street, given the low rate of Newstart. CL are not going to help you go abroad to fix your ailments. Nor would anyone in the medical "system" of Oz . . . for example, I have a crippling osteo issue for which they now have new types of operations abroad, which won't be under Medicare for 20 years. I think you are absolutely right to be wary, cautious, and beware of gungho types on this board who only support applying for UP. The prisoner aspect is the hardest thing to deal with though, and that is caused by finances and the tyranny of distance. If I were you I would not even bring up the American operation concept. But given your ailment(s) you can consider just applying for UP with supporting documentation about your condition, and try your luck, because I doubt you would be knocked onto Newstart.

[Deleted]

well i have been on dsp for 13 years,i no that i and lots of others were knocked back dsp the first time ,most are i think,or lots are ,then you have to walk away or dispute it,second time i got it no worries,i think it would be same with up,may be not meny get it first up,they also told me i may end up on new start if i went 4 it so i cant afford that its just to risky now.its just natural that they will not give it out like lollies,i think every one if they want it will have to fight bloody hard 4 it.

[Banjo]

Welcome to the board tobefree.

I'm going to poll members to see exactly what the results of the UP applications have been, I tend to think the results are a little better than our board pessimist baranghope suggests.

Mine was refused but I think I would stand a good chance on appeal because the assessment process only allows one disability to be taken into account and also ignores things like how employable someone actually is outside of that process.

If you decide to apply we're here to support you with experience and encouragement.
Sure we have advice as well but we have no qualifications to offer anything from a professional point of view.

[Deleted]

Tobefree: Welcome to the board and good luck with your condition mate; but if you never apply because of fear then you are in a self imposed prison mate! Your at the best place for advice mate, so listen to Banker and Banjo mostly and you wont go wrong; but the intial steps must be taken by you alone! I took B&Bs profound advice and followed it to the letter, and I was granted "Indefinite Portability" as C/L so call it. Good Luck Mate:)) Cheetal...

Baranghope: I must be one of those Gung Ho types you mentioned mate; but if I wasn't and too scared to act; then I would never have got "Indefinite Portability" and wouldn't be off to live permanently and happily in the Philippines in June:)) As the Northern Territory add once said; "You'll Never Ever Know, If You Never Ever Go"! Just a thought mate; "Go Gung Ho": be safe mate:)) Cheetal...

[zorro1]

wikianswers

Gungho

""As an English term, it generally is used to mean something like Work Together, or alternatively to show enthusiasm for the task"

baranghope is correct. We are indeed doing exactly the above ;-)

[melnee]

I have dealt with so many dipshit uniformed centrelink staff that also love to threaten wherever they can, I often have to tell them the laws & legislation. I am dealing with one atm who I speak to like a 3 yr old & trapped the idiot who was trying to get me on residency when I'm asking for a medical extension. He is an ARO !!!!! but not in the department (who thanks to Banjo's help, I have told him he is in the wrong department & he is not in a position to help me. When he 1st called (& I had not requested an ARO) he was asking strange questions, I said "have you read anything about my file ?" His answer "No I thought I would speak to you 1st" I could not believe my ears. When I called him on his residency angle that has nothing to do with this he said "Oh so you know about the residency laws then & you clearly pass them" The nightmare with this guy is endless & his stupidity is amazing. My point with this is that for UP & any other matter you have with these people is Know everything you can about Social Secruity Laws,legislation etc that you can BEFORE you start dealing with them. This site is great for helping you with this but they can't give it all to you you need to research as much as yo can & try not to let their threats scare you, check what they are saying is true & ask them to send yo the legislation that supports their B/S, I haven't had anyone follow through with sending me certain legislation yet even though they promise they know it & they will email it to you (because of course they don't know it off the top of their heads) and funnily enough no one has ever told me to look for it myself lol, I already have it anyway.
I would also like to know the JCA people's qualifications b4 I would start any conversation with them. I have looked & looked & can't find it anywhere, does anyone know their qualifications ? Do they have any medical training I certainly agree don't take a no as the only answer, flood them with appeals.
Mel

[aussieinusa]

"I would also like to know the JCA people's qualifications b4 I would start any conversation with them. I have looked & looked & can't find it anywhere, does anyone know their qualifications ? Do they have any medical training "

I had one a couple of weeks ago, and the assessor was a psychologist. My disabilities are entirely physical (except for sometimes getting a little depressed about being in pain all the time) so I wasn't entirely sure what a psychologist was doing assessing me. She said she was satisfied that I'm genuinely disabled and would 'pass' me... but she can't pass me herself, and has to have a physical assessor 'assess' me (by just looking at my paperwork and making a call from that). Why they don't have you meet with someone who's actually qualified to assess you to begin with, I do not know.

I had to force her to take a photocopy of my latest specialist's report to add to my file; she didn't want to do it and kept telling me, "oh, I'll say I sighted it"!!

So as far as I can tell, based primarily on my own experiences, no, their 'assessors' don't have to have a single second of medical training to decide whether you're disabled or not. I wish I were joking.

And they have the authority to over-rule my GP and specialist, both of whom have general and specialist medical training. My GP is a semi-retired specialist; my specialist is a medical professor trained in two specialties, head of his unit at a major Sydney hospital, internationally known for his research and pioneering new treatments, has worked in medicine on three continents... and the paper-pushers at CL know better about my condition than they do?!?

I'm really hoping they make the right decision and declare me 'still-disabled' but what I've seen of their system so far leaves me with almost zero faith in it.

[aussieinusa]

tobefree, there's an International Social Security Agreement between Australia and the USA. In theory, that means Australians living in the USA are supposed to have some sort of long-term entitlement to pension money, if they're either age pensioners or 'severely disabled' (30 points or more under the old assessment tables; not sure what the rating is under the new tables).

CL will not tell you that.

I've lived in the USA on and off since 2008, found out recently that I was classed as 'severely disabled' while I was living there... and yet, they applied the usual portability rules to me. I'm pretty sure that's 'defective administration' and I should have a case to challenge them... but I'm fighting with them just to get pension reinstated at the moment, so I can't deal with the backpay issues yet.

What I suggest you do is call Centrelink International (131673), ask for XXXX XXXXX, then ask him if the Int'l Agreement with the USA would cover an Australian citizen on DSP who needed to spend an extended period in the USA for medical treatment not available here. He's there international portability specialist, so if any of their people would know, it's probably him. (That's public knowledge, right... if not, delete me, sorry...)

If I were you I'd do it anonymously, though -- don't tell them who you are, just say it's a general enquiry -- and be careful about trick questions.

And then come back here and tell us what you find out, of course!

Seriously, I'm curious what they'd tell you; I'm trying to figure out exactly what their Int'l Agreement with the USA actually means myself right now.

edit to take out C/L staff name.

[Banjo]

Mike seems to be the man on the wheel there.
Not sure if he has much say in the decision process though.

Be careful discussing Centrelink staff on the forum please, keep it in very general terms.
If you have a complaint about anyone address it to me or Banker personally and we'll point you in the right direction.

[newtodsp]

I believe there is a document online somewhere which gives a percentage breakdown of the occupational backgrounds of the JCA assessors, if you google hard enough you will find it. I think psychologists are a good proportion of the assessors.

Thanks aussinusa for telling us about your recent assessment, keep us informed about the outcome under the new tables. Good luck with it. You are brave to undergo review under the new tables, the idea has me fearful!

Yes it is crazy the assessors can over rule the best specialists in this country, who may be renouned for their research/treatments. It really shows they are not serious about being fair.

In terms of the international social security arrangements between countries, surely there is a document online or held by WR which explicitly states how this works?

[aussieinusa]

Mar 9, 2013 13:07:33 GMT 7 newtodsp said:

Thanks aussinusa for telling us about your recent assessment, keep us informed about the outcome under the new tables. Good luck with it. You are brave to undergo review under the new tables, the idea has me fearful!

Oh, I didn't get a choice in it. I'm not brave, 'stupid' is closer to it.

I didn't know their rules well enough, so I went overseas to try to find the kind of work I can still do, which isn't really available in Australia (I've been looking for years here with no luck). Didn't realise it was a punishable offence in CL's eyes, to stop collecting DSP for a while because you're out of the country, looking for work at your own expense. They helpfully didn't tell me before I left, that if I was gone longer than 26 weeks, I'd be considered 'no longer disabled', because apparently incurable progressive conditions just go away if you're not on their books for a while. They also helpfully didn't tell me there's an Int'l Agreement with the USA, which I probably would've been eligible under for all the time I was over there!

So for now, I'm just fighting them to have my medical condition recognised at all, and be put on DSP again. They told me I should be OK because I had 30 points on one table under the old tables, i.e. "severely disabled"... but how is it a good use of taxpayers' money to re-assess "severely disabled" people to see if they're still disabled, when they have a condition known to be incurable and progressive, and were already at the extreme end of impairment from it, the last three times they had to provide reports from their doctors?!?

Mar 9, 2013 13:07:33 GMT 7 newtodsp said:

In terms of the international social security arrangements between countries, surely there is a document online or held by WR which explicitly states how this works?

No, as far as I can tell, Welfare Rights know nothing about Int'l Agreements, and have made it their business to know nothing about them.

They've accepted CL's new policy that Australian welfare is only for Aussies currently resident in Australia, no matter what their family or other circumstances, without really bothering to think about it themselves at all, as far as I can tell.

Excuse my ranting a little; I thought highly of WR until I had to go to them for help myself. Maybe I just spoke to a bad person there, or something...

[fedup]

AT the moment talking to anyone ,WR ,C/L Whoever is like a revolving door with no exit