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Post by roxane on Jul 1, 2014 20:24:27 GMT 7
I had a talk with both CL and CI today. It seems to me that it's a complete mess: When I asked about the UP, CL told me today that the 4 weeks was official!!?? I asked how come, shouldn't it pass the senate? The guy said, it has already passed! In doubt, I called CI, and they said no, it hasn't If I already got hold of them after waiting in the queue for about 30 min, I asked about the International agreements, specifically for Germany. To my surprise, CI said that from today everybody needs to go through the JCA to quality under the agreement. So far, for most countries, you needed to be seriously disable to qualify, but for GER no, a normal DSP was enough. According to CI, for all countries now you will need to go through JCA But I jumped on their website and found a very different information. Can you have a look? " People in receipt of Australian disability support pension under the Agreement who are not severely disabled can travel to Germany and be paid for periods of up to 26 weeks." guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/10/14/9/20 It say on the top: Version 1.205 - Released 1 July 2014 On the bottom: Last reviewed: 2 January 2013 So wondering which info to trust??? Isn't it a mess? There is another updated site, but can't find the relevant info. www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2013C00024/Html/Volume_1#_Toc345491704Can someone tell me where does it say you need JCA or you need to be severely disabled? Where did CI got the new information? Or it's just another crap?
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Post by fedup on Jul 2, 2014 3:44:07 GMT 7
Read my posts,centrelink fun and games
To qualify for mutual agreement pension I ran the risk of losing DSP altogether,at least so I was told
I had to be reassessed ,and under the agreement severely disabled and unable to work UP TO EIGHT HRS P/ W, as well as another JCA
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 4:12:33 GMT 7
It's a mess all right.
Two weeks ago I was told face to face by a Centrelink ARO, "If you were travelling to an agreement country I could make a decision on that today. Unfortunately you're not, if you want UP you'll have to be reassessed and might lose your payments."
Being able to make a decision today was possible because of being long term, severe impairment, no future work capacity. I am still gobsmacked.
This disparity is the basis of my senate submission!
Grrrr, cheers bear
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Post by roxane on Jul 2, 2014 14:34:24 GMT 7
can someone translate that to me , what does this mean: "Australian disability support pension under the Agreement shall not be payable for more than 26 weeks to a person who is not severely disabled while that person is outside Australia." ref: www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/international/international-social-security-agreements/current-international-social-security-agreements/social-security-agreement-between-australia-and-germanywhat a twisted sentence. does it mean DSP is payable up to 26 weeks for the severely disabled? And why is it different on their other website? "people in receipt of Australian disability support pension under the Agreement who are not severely disabled can travel to Germany and be paid for periods of up to 26 weeks." You go down to legislative scope, and for GER it say: s regards Australia, to the Acts forming the social security law insofar as the law provides for, applies to or affects the following benefits: age pension, disability support pension, carer payment So do you need to be severely disabled or not to travel to GER, or CI just made it up, like they usually do with so many things??? Any idea? thx!
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Post by zingzingzing on Jul 2, 2014 14:52:46 GMT 7
Has anyone contacted Centerlink International?
There was no mention of anything regarding mutual obligation countries and had to be reassessed? When I asked them, they just said to me today, that I can travel to any country, I just had to let them know when.
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Post by roxane on Jul 2, 2014 15:05:30 GMT 7
Has anyone contacted Centerlink International? There was no mention of anything regarding mutual obligation countries and had to be reassessed? When I asked them, they just said to me today, that I can travel to any country, I just had to let them know when. When did you talk to them? I called them yesterday, and talked to two different person, both very confident in the new law which according to them you'll need JCA to qualify for every single mutual agreement country, unless you already done it and you are classified as severely disabled. But for some reason I just don't trust them!
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Post by zingzingzing on Jul 2, 2014 15:11:40 GMT 7
Has anyone contacted Centerlink International? There was no mention of anything regarding mutual obligation countries and had to be reassessed? When I asked them, they just said to me today, that I can travel to any country, I just had to let them know when. When did you talk to them? I called them yesterday, and talked to two different person, both very confident in the new law which according to them you'll need JCA to qualify for every single mutual agreement country, unless you already done it and you are classified as severely disabled. But for some reason I just don't trust them! Talked to them this morning. Yes, that would be the difference I suppose. I am classed not as severely disabled, but as permanently disabled (not sure the difference in terms of portability though). It's bit odd that you have to do one for every country?
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Post by roxane on Jul 2, 2014 16:06:20 GMT 7
No it's not every country, what I meant that the agreements are different for each country. Some only pay for OAP, some for OAP and DSP, some pay for carers, some not, but the big difference for DSP is that the criteria for most countries is that you need to be seriously disabled. However for few countries like GER and Austria DSP was enough, no extra criteria and especially no JCA needed. And that's what's I don't get, you read the current soc. sec agreement, and it seems to me that it hasn't been changed. So why is CI telling me otherwise?
The link to the agreements is in my above posts. If I missed something I wanna know. I will ring CI again tomorrow, and will ask them to email me the relevant paragraph where it's say that you will need JCA to use that agreement. Not happy!!!! I think they just making things up as they go.
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Post by zingzingzing on Jul 2, 2014 16:29:07 GMT 7
No it's not every country, what I meant that the agreements are different for each country. Some only pay for OAP, some for OAP and DSP, some pay for carers, some not, but the big difference for DSP is that the criteria for most countries is that you need to be seriously disabled. However for few countries like GER and Austria DSP was enough, no extra criteria and especially no JCA needed. And that's what's I don't get, you read the current soc. sec agreement, and it seems to me that it hasn't been changed. So why is CI telling me otherwise? The link to the agreements is in my above posts. If I missed something I wanna know. I will ring CI again tomorrow, and will ask them to email me the relevant paragraph where it's say that you will need JCA to use that agreement. Not happy!!!! I think they just making things up as they go. I defiantly ring them again in that case, And yet I get ya now, I have the PDF's saved in separate folders called with DSP and without DSP. I also ask them to clarify if they mean you need a JCA Interview and a Medical Review before going overseas.
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Post by fedup on Jul 2, 2014 17:37:45 GMT 7
Hmmmm
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Post by blacktulipvampire on Jul 2, 2014 19:06:12 GMT 7
Reading your posts and extracts, I'd say that for Germany :- anyone on DSP can go for 26 weeks and be paid. If you want to go for more, then you need to be classified as severely disabled. For International Agreements, this means unable to work 8 hrs or more.
So, obviously, for agreements that are for only severely DSP a JCA would be required, to get a current assessment of your working capacity.
But for Germany, like you I fail to understand why you would need one. I assume you told them that you were talking only for less than 26 weeks ?
You won't find a JCA reference in any of the agreements ( I don't think ) - they just stipulate severely disabled, which is explained in the guide, re work capacity.
As you say, not all the agreements are the same. Ask to speak to some-one who deals specifically with the the agreement with Germany. If they say you need a JCA, just ask why ?
Did they say just a JCA, or a full medical review ?
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Post by zingzingzing on Jul 2, 2014 19:34:53 GMT 7
Yup more clarification is needed.
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Post by roxane on Jul 2, 2014 20:10:50 GMT 7
Reading your posts and extracts, I'd say that for Germany :- anyone on DSP can go for 26 weeks and be paid. If you want to go for more, then you need to be classified as severely disabled. For International Agreements, this means unable to work 8 hrs or more. So, obviously, for agreements that are for only severely DSP a JCA would be required, to get a current assessment of your working capacity. But for Germany, like you I fail to understand why you would need one. I assume you told them that you were talking only for less than 26 weeks ? You won't find a JCA reference in any of the agreements ( I don't think ) - they just stipulate severely disabled, which is explained in the guide, re work capacity. As you say, not all the agreements are the same. Ask to speak to some-one who deals specifically with the the agreement with Germany. If they say you need a JCA, just ask why ? Did they say just a JCA, or a full medical review ? Yes, I did tell the I would only want to go for 2 month or so, they said full JCA. No matter which country, Germany included! Well I'll give another try, new day, new laws
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Post by fedup on Jul 2, 2014 23:36:59 GMT 7
IN REGARDS NZ.a full reassessment medical and JCA,and run the risk of losing. DSP altogether.
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Post by roxane on Jul 3, 2014 10:20:05 GMT 7
Called CI again this morning, talked to a helpful guy. So he did look further into it, and said that the information on the dss website hasn't been updated, and on the 01 July another law came into place, something to do with working life residency, What is means for the agreement, apparently the person needs to be on the agreement already when coming into the country, and hasn't exceeded 10 years in AUS. - Don't ask, I don't quite get it either. But the bottom line , that in my opinion, some smart f'ed up asshole lawyer worked out how to get around the Int. Agreement countries, so even though there's an agreement in place, it doesn't worth more that a piece of toilet paper. So they want to force you to go through the JCA, hoping you'll be thrown out altogether!
It's unbelievable how these rotten bastards do nothing else but employ lawyers from the taxpayers money!!! to get around policies and legislations which purpose is to help people on welfare. This Int agreement is the perfect example of it.
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