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Post by taurus57 on May 29, 2017 11:49:15 GMT 7
Hello to everyone!
I've been reading posts on this forum for a couple of weeks now and have just summoned the courage to write.
I am a 60yr old woman and have been on the DSP since 2003 after failed multi level back fusion following an accident in 1996. The years have not been kind and my physical as well as mental health has been on the decline since. My body is consumed with degenerative joint disease as well as degenerative disc disease without prospect of further surgery due to nerve damage. I have no family or friends and have lived in a small NSW rural town since 1999. I rarely ventured out due to pain and embarrassment of falling etc.
I have a dear friend living in the US who has invited me live with them so I don't have to be alone or die alone. I have reservations about applying for UP after reading some of the posts here and fears of losing my pension completely. On the other hand if I don't apply soon my health will restrict travel completely.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated and thanks for reading.
Taurus57
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Post by nomadic on May 29, 2017 12:06:29 GMT 7
Welcome taurus57. I don't think any of us can predict what clink will ever do to individuals. But you seem to be safe to me to apply for it. On what you say I can't believe they would take you off DSP. But we don't refer to them here as Satan link for nothing. But i would encourage you to go for it as having UP is for me like being in heaven. Best wishes. nomadic.
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Post by murphy on May 29, 2017 12:27:56 GMT 7
Welcome, Taurus.
You were granted DSP based on what we call the pre-2012 Impairment Tables. In 2012 the Tables were altered to make qualification for DSP more difficult.
If you apply for UP you will be assessed against the 2012 Tables. Your best first step would be to look at the Tables and discuss with your doctor(s) how many points they feel your condition(s) would attract.
For UP, you need 20 points on ONE Table -- most likely that will be the spinal function Table for you. You also need your medicos to state you have no future work capacity.
There are also some letters in the FAQ, Forms and Letters folder that you can take to your doctor(s) to fill out and sign, or which you could use to base a letter relevant to your specific condition(s) and impairment(s). You need to call Centrelink to ask for an Unlimited Portability application. Best wishes.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2017 12:46:03 GMT 7
Welcome taurus57, As usual the guidelines are ambiguous re portability. The US has a Social Security Agreement with Australia. The link immediately below relates to those agreements, scroll down the left side, click on US. To clarify how the the highlighted text "does not apply" a call to Centrelink International Services (131 673) should supply the answer. I well understand your reluctance to apply for UP and I was once led to believe if I were going to an agreement country, perhaps it may not be required. As I wasn't, the conversation stalled. As stated on other threads, talk to your medical professionals, get up to date medical info and make a personal informed decision on whether to proceed. Cheers bear www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2017C00078 7.1.2.10 General Rules of PortabilitySummary The portability period for social security payments varies depending on the payment. Portability rules by payment type can be found in the portability table (7.1.2.20). However, these rules do not apply to recipients who are covered by an international social security agreement (7.1.1.20) and are going to the agreement country.guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/7/1/2/107.1.1.20 Summary of Portability under International Social Security Agreements International social security agreements (1.1.A.120) guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/7/1/1/20
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Post by Banjo on May 29, 2017 13:11:15 GMT 7
They're a bit of a minefield, I was under the impression that some sort of connection to the country was required, not sure a friend qualifies. I'd ring Centrelink International (CIS), you can do so anonymously for a general inquiry.
13 1673
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Post by nomadic on May 29, 2017 19:09:15 GMT 7
Well recalled bear although i can't remember the U.S. being one of the counties but obviously my memory not as good as yours. I can't remember that a connection was needed either banjo. I thought it was totally without a catch. So i think we all agree that Murphy's advice is best to begin with as well as a call to international. and i think we all agree with banjo's adjective of minefield.
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Post by taurus57 on May 30, 2017 3:55:48 GMT 7
Thankyou Nomadic, Murphy, Bear and Banjo for your welcome and replies, all of which offer extremely helpful advice. Sorry for the late reply but pain got the better of me yesterday. Bear, I have tried numerous times to connect to the this link www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2017C00078 without any luck. Also I'm having a hard time understanding the "Agreement Country" side of things. I find reading anything to do with Centrelink confusing and the more you re-read it the worse it becomes. I thought I would be able to port my full pension from Australia but if I applied for a pension in the US the "Agreement" would come into effect. Your clarification on this would be greatly appreciated before I proceed with any formal applications or phone calls for information. I want to be able to come across "knowledgeable", if you know what I mean. My original application for the DSP in 2003 was granted due to my specialists stating that I had no future capacity for any type of work and that my condition would severely detiorate over future years, which it certainly has. This by no means makes me feel safer than anyone else in applying for UP, it's a very scary prospect and we are all afraid of the unknown. Does being classed as permanently incapacitated back then have any bearing on my application now? Murphy, I was given 20 points under 1 table back in 2003. I have never been called in for reassessment or asked to do any training over the years. Perhaps I should apply for my original file under FOI. I will spend today looking at the other items you mentioned as well, thanks. Nomadic, I'm truly happy you've found your heaven from being granted UP. I too am looking for a little bit of heaven even this late in life. Banjo, thankyou for the International phone number. Just to clarify, my "dear friend" is actually my fiancé of 2 years now and we both have decided it's time to be together and enjoy the limited years we have left on this earth, even us oldies deserve our share of happiness, not sure the Government will agree. Hopefully our age won't be a detriment to our application for a K1 visa. Just something else to stress about. Thankyou all again for your helpful advice. Taurus57
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 5:14:01 GMT 7
Taurus... the link in both yours and my post are working fine for me, though if you have difficulty with DSS guidelines perhaps legislation isn't for you anyhow. As Banjo said, it is a mine field and I share your pain reading and trying to decipher anything Centrelink. "Agreement Countries" are the thirty-one countries in the list. Being severely disabled with no future work capacity under the 30hr rule from 2003, counts for nothing in today's climate, and obtaining your complete file under FOI is a great idea. At least then you'll know how you sit with them. Although they continually reference NZ, the rules appear to stay the same within the agreements. If an application is successful you should be able to port your OZ pension as set out below. (7.1.3.20) Cheers bear 7.1.3.10 Portability Provisions for Recipients Paid Under the 1995 Agreement with New Zealand Going to New Zealand or to Another CountryFor payments made under the 1995 Agreement the following is a general guide. It is recommended that CIS be contacted for specific advice on individual cases. guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/7/1/3/107.1.3.20 Portability & Rate under the 2002 Agreement with New Zealand
if they intend to go for >12 months, the special Agreement rate applies from date of arrival in New Zealand, or if they go for <12 months, the normal rate payable in Australia continues for 26 weeks and then the special Agreement rate applies. guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/7/1/3/20
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Post by taurus57 on May 30, 2017 5:37:21 GMT 7
Thankyou so much bear. I only have a Samsung tablet and use Firefox browser which appears to be the problem. I managed to get the link to work with the Chrome browser instead but as you noted, understanding anything Centrelink is difficult indeed. I will read through the new link for NZ etc today.
Thanks again, Taurus57
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Post by murphy on May 30, 2017 5:50:44 GMT 7
Bear, seems like a call to CIS might be the starting point?
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 5:50:52 GMT 7
Just got off the phone to CIS with an anonomous general inquiry. In saying "Being severely disabled with no future work capacity under the 30hr rule from 2003, counts for nothing in today's climate", may not necessarily be true.
Was told, "In determining whether you need to apply for UP, they would need to review your file."
Whether this would then trigger a full review, because of not ever having a JCA or being assessed under the current tables is something else to consider. What a cesspit!
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Post by murphy on May 30, 2017 5:57:22 GMT 7
Hmm. I thought any UP application went through reassessment? We need to do the "rule of 3" test on CIS (call three times and see if we get the same advice each time)
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Post by nomadic on May 30, 2017 6:59:24 GMT 7
Firstly taurus you are younger than many of us. Myself and bear included. You are just on the verge of the old age era. 1 to 30 = young. 30 to 60 = middle. 61 to 90 = old. 90+ = lucky. Could they possibly be that heartless to review you let alone put you on the dole? But again another case of reading the above experts and starting the day with GGGGGGRRRRROOOOOWWWWLLLIIINNNGGG! MINEFIELD = understatement.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 7:01:51 GMT 7
Hmm. I thought any UP application went through reassessment? We need to do the "rule of 3" test on CIS (call three times and see if we get the same advice each time) UP applications, yes. International agreement applications not so sure. In my earlier post I refer to a face to face interaction when asking about unlimited portability generally about three years ago. My file was reviewed then and there and I was definitely given the impression it would all be sorted then and there. The clincher was, "Which country do you want to go to?" "Thailand" "Thailand is not an agreement country, you will need to be reassessed before you leave." That's what she said, I kid you not! Read more: dspoverseas.proboards.com/thread/3175/chalk-cheese#ixzz4iW1H8Qwg
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Post by murphy on May 30, 2017 7:12:05 GMT 7
Ah, I was getting my hopes up. It sounds like there may be a chance for Taurus; it needs thorough investigation, starting with CIS contact.
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