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Post by ghostknife on Jul 25, 2023 15:47:07 GMT 7
Hi, haven't been here in a while and actually forgot about it due to just losing memories in general.... anyway been trying to make sense of ALL the information and talking (or attempting) to International Services and the local Service Centre doesn't help. This is likely going to be long so I can provide all the relevant information i remember, apologies in advance.
Background info: Been on DSP since effectively December 2012, granted Feb 2013, was assessed under the newer 2011 rules with had 20 points for Mental Health as far as I remember, there wasn't any other conditions/illness I submitted medical evidence for. Additionally i Recently applied for and was granted NDIS due to also this year being diagnosed with high level Autism, unsure if this makes any difference, don't have any plan etc active didn't get that far yet. Centrelink probably know this due to NDIA accessing my records there.
I want to go to the USA for an unknown time period and assumed I'd have to apply for UP, which is what International Services then told me. Getting the forms and trying to fill them out proved difficult and haven't been able to do it. I no longer have all the previous work related information, last employers etc and the Psychiatrist who provided medical report has since retired and business closed several years ago, according to another Psychiatrist who i found that had worked there all old patient records were destroyed. I could request previous documents under FOI although reading here and asking the local office seems that might be difficult or take a long time which i don't have.
I'm aware i could apply for DSP for Autism and would probably get it (reading the new Brain table) however i think it's easier to stay with the mental health table as it's only got worse since previous application and my GP has a very long history of that.
Then reading the USA international agreement it APPEARS I shouldn't even have to apply, i couldn't find any place it said I wasn't eligible to continue to receive payment beyond 28 days, doesn't mean it not there but i get confused with too much information. The local Service Centre says different and that I'll still need to reapply, couldn't even get in contact with International Services all last week, hours on hold..... They did previously say i could apply for UP once in USA and sent me the forms for that too.
Any information or advice as to the best course of action is much appreciated as i need to do this as soon as possible, before December really because I will have to move from the place I've lived (Alone) for the last 18 years due to the owner returning from overseas permanently. I don't have any other place to go here or know how to deal with that now, barely able to make most decisions. I have somewhere i can go in USA for a while and also to take a break from this place if I can organise and cope with that too! Everything is difficult. It's not a partner or relationship situation.
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Post by ghostknife on Jul 25, 2023 16:06:43 GMT 7
Oh, if it's relevant i haven't been outside Australia since receiving DSP in 2013, no record of frequent travel.
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Post by JJJ88 on Jul 26, 2023 14:46:09 GMT 7
Hi Ghostknife, requesting your FOI (as described on the forum) file will not take that long. Then you will have your own reference for when you apply for UP/IP.
You may be pushed for time, but if you plan to head to another country for an extended period outside the 28 day window, you really need to be sure to obtain indefinite portability for your Pension.
It may be a daunting process but essentially you will recieve your Pension for however long you wish to live overseas.
Cheers
J
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Post by ghostknife on Jul 26, 2023 15:45:14 GMT 7
[quote author=" JJJ88" source="/post/78807/thread" timestamp="1690357569" It may be a daunting process but essentially you will recieve your Pension for however long you wish to live overseas. Cheers J [/quote] Hi thanks for the info, i know i wrote a lot, i can often read everything and think about it but fail to process the information and get "stuck" trying to actually do anything (ADHD and ASD) and get confused and overwhelmed with it all. However after i wrote all that i did manage to contact International Services today and ask some questions, they said i don't really need a lot of the information i didn't have and it's really the Medical report Part A) from me and B) from the Doctor they need to start anything, that's slightly easier. Anyway still need to visit and discuss this with my GP again. Also got an appointment with a Disability Advocate next week to discuss this so I have someone to help or attend the JCA if I need, I'm guessing this is helpful. I originally had someone from the Disability Employment place I had to attend after I was denied the DSP first time because I had no idea about the tables and what was required. I'd said things I'd managed to do while struggling with illness so it was like i was trying to help myself and get on with life, WRONG. No you are required to be unable to do everything, obviously the point 🤦. |
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Post by bear on Jul 27, 2023 6:39:50 GMT 7
No need to consider reapplying ghostknife . If your autism has been diagnosed, treated and is stabilised, no need for "fully" anymore according to new legislation; just have it and any other extra conditions added on to your current mental health DSP determination by having your doctor include it in his part of your UP application. We've been advised it's best to have medicos use the Centrelink speak from the descriptors in the tables so as to make it easier to understand for the poor dears. Last year a member advised they were going for more than 28 days and were told they'd need to be reviewed before leaving by having a JCA. Not sure they even filled out a UP application as time was short. They were advised of gaining UP while overseas, though they were over 60 if memory serves. Good luck with it all; cheers 🐻 P.S. Below is a link outlining FOI expected timelines and procedures. It can all be done online provided you've got access to the internet, email address & phone number. Perhaps discuss it at your disability advocate meeting and have them help. dspoverseas.proboards.com/thread/7005/foi-denials-obfuscation?page=1&scrollTo=73279 |
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Post by scuzzy on Jul 28, 2023 1:06:14 GMT 7
Portability under the 'Agreement Countries' system is the least known about thing in the whole DSP landscape.I looked into it a couple of years ago and came away not knowing much more than when I started. There's virtually no useful information online, even on specialist forums like this one. And as you've no doubt already learned, the official literature / blurb sheets are next to useless. Even Centrelink don't know much about the way it works. What they told me was that the only way to figure out how it will work in any particular case and how it will impact your payment is to ring them up (International Services) and tell them you are thinking of going to an agreement country. They'll then punch all the relevant details into the computer (a dummy run) and see what it spits out.
One thing you'll have to be careful with is whether you are just visiting there or whether you'll be residing there (living there). They will ask this, and it may affect the outcome. It sounds like you'll be residing there (as you'll be uprooting your life in Australia), so I'd tell them that. Be aware though that if you weren't going to an 'Agreement Country', becoming a resident of another country could potentially lead to cancellation of DSP (it's a grey area; best not to open that can of worms right now). Also, if I'm not wrong, any time you spend as a non-resident of Australia won't affect your AWLR (Australian Work Life Residency) down the track if you spent those years in an 'Agreement' country (but better to double check this). AWLR affects Old Age Pension later and can affect DSP in certain circumstances.
So I'd do two things. Firstly, like others have said, I'd get your file via FOI so you know where you stand in relation to I.P (Indefinite Portability, no longer called U.P). It will only take a couple of weeks and it is invaluable. At the same time, I'd ring International Services and tell them you are thinking of relocating to the USA and you want to know if that's possible under the 'Agreement Country' system(not the I.P. system, which they want the medical forms for). Expect the officer to not be able to give you a straight answer, but try to work through it with them until you both have a firm idea.
Then, if you get your file and it looks like you've got a good case for I.P you can apply. However, if it turns out you don't have a strong case for I.P, then pursue the 'Agreement Country' route (depending on what International Services tell you). It seems to me that you don't have enough info on either issue to make an informed decision just yet. Personally, I would not advise making an application for I.P unless I knew what my impairment rating was and how many of hours work capacity I was deemed to have. Because you were granted after the 2012 changes, you're in a safer position, but I'd still want to know where I stood before going any further. You don't want to rush into anything and risk putting your DSP in jeopardy.
Just lastly, I've got a vague memory of someone on this forum talking about going to America under the Agreement Country system. Maybe use the search function of this forum using key words like 'Agreement Country', 'USA', 'America' etc and see if any old threads pop up.
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Post by JJJ88 on Jul 28, 2023 15:49:00 GMT 7
Well said Scuzzy, but just to add, Permanent Residency of another country does not affect your Aussie Pension, only in the case of where you take up Citizenship in the new country then renounce the other where the Pension comes from. You can have as many passports and citizenships as you want.
Cheers
J
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Post by ghostknife on Jul 28, 2023 17:06:14 GMT 7
No need to consider reapplying ghostknife . If your autism has been diagnosed, treated and is stabilised, no need for "fully" anymore according to new legislation; just have it and any other extra conditions added on to your current mental health DSP determination by having your doctor include it in his part of your UP application. We've been advised it's best to have medicos use the Centrelink speak from the descriptors in the tables so as to make it easier to understand for the poor dears. P.S. Below is a link outlining FOI.... dspoverseas.proboards.com/thread/7005/foi-denials-obfuscation?page=1&scrollTo=73279Thanks for your reply, i had read that FOI post before I posted, was trying to save the time of waiting but I'll probably just go ahead and apply for the FOI request anyway I'm not understanding exactly what you mean about adding the Autism in, you're saying that if i add that then I don't need to apply for IP somehow? I don't know it would be classified as treated and stablished, theoretically there is no treatment that's the point of NDIS, it's only for care and help to live. Again, confusing. My concern was that should I have another JCA that they would either try and split the points I needed across different tables therefore not giving 20 points in one OR try to say that my Mental health was a result of the Autism and therefore not eligible somehow. Either way no IP. IT'S all so confusing now and personally I thought it would be easier for me to deal with only One condition on the DSP. I don't know what to do at this point, both are correct and I've not found a single person who knows about the Agreement countries side. To clarify I never said to CIS i was wanting to relocate Permanently to the USA and certainly not at this time, just more than 28 days and an unspecified time, few months maybe right now, its complicated by the NDIS now too. Wasn't sure i was going to get that and was thinking about the USA before that too. I looked all over the USA Social Security website for similar agreement information and didn't find anything much either, said to go to any office there and get forms except you're essentially applying via the country you came from. Also regardless it did clearly say that because you'd never worked/paid taxes in the USA you wouldn't be eligible to get Medicare regardless of if you did receive the Disability benefits there. |
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Post by ghostknife on Jul 28, 2023 17:12:00 GMT 7
Hmm, to add, i wonder what info CIS would give if I asked about permanent relocation under the agreement now too. I didn't ask that as it's not an option right now. I've only asked about IP to go there yes....
I don't have any plan to ever live in a non agreement country, Asia somewhere for example.
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Post by bear on Jul 28, 2023 21:13:49 GMT 7
Since you were aware of that I made the suggestion, as whenever anyone's going for IP it's long been suggested to update everything with your doctors and add any new conditions that may have been found since receiving DSP, just as a back-up to keeping it, even if they deny IP. I seriously doubt they'd be able to split points, as Mental Health & Brain Function are different tables.
My mental health stopped me from going ahead with an IP application, through the fear of losing my payment, due to the way in which it was granted. I also put off applying for my file due to paranoia. The thing is, once I changed to Aged Pension, I did get my file and I would have gotten IP approval no sweat. Luckily it was only a couple of years wait.
Asking CIS about permanent relocation just for the info may be a good idea because, many moons ago I went and asked about IP and was told they could sort it then & there. That was news to me, but it turned out they were thinking of me going to an agreement country and I was thinking of coming to Asia, so, nothing came of it and I never got the info on how it would've worked. To give you perspective; I was granted DSP 2000, was reviewed 2002-3 over the festive season by a CMO. I asked about IP post 2012, so, the officer would've had all of my pre 2012 details on the screen and would've seen I qualified. However they just said as I was going Asia they couldn't do it on the spot, I'd need to apply, have a JCA, be reviewed essentially. Not that I asked but, they're also under no obligation to disclose your personal information to you personally. That's what FOI is for, if you want to know the details of the info they hold on you; apparently. Cheers 🐻
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Post by ghostknife on Aug 2, 2023 17:31:34 GMT 7
Thanks for the info Bear, they don't make anything easy right! Common sense never comes into it, like they can see how long anyone has been on, if you've worked (ok legally) or not, been in or out of the country etc. Nope I've been sitting here trying to survive going to the same Dr, chemist for meds, hospital, in theory they know everything. It's not going to change just because I'm living somewhere else and have an actual friend who would help me..... rant lol. I suppose they get upset because you're not going to spend the money they give you and put it back into the local economy. Sure they give you money it's not like they effectively don't get a chunk of it back in other peoples taxes etc
I'm going to do the FOI and just see what it says first.
No need to reply, cheers.
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