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Post by lynnebali on Jun 20, 2012 8:57:04 GMT 7
Just had the SSAT hearing via conference call. I do not think it went well. Has any other member had or going for a residency review?
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Post by Banjo on Jun 20, 2012 10:19:46 GMT 7
I hope it went better than you thought Lynne.
You know about my SSAT residency appeal last year, I don't think I would have handled it as well on the phone though.
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Post by lynnebali on Jun 20, 2012 10:26:43 GMT 7
They are basing residency appeals on current centrelink law. The only thing encouraging that was said 'if we decide to overturn the appeal don;t celebrate too soon because CL has the right to appeal to AAT. I just kept reinforcing no time linit was set by CL - only the 13 weeks and we abided by that law. If I had an oven I thnk I would be putting my head in it. The SSAT team was from Darwin.
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Post by lynnebali on Jun 20, 2012 10:29:17 GMT 7
Somewhere in my long winded SSAT appeal I made reference to "we" so they asked who we was. I just said I am on a forum (did not mention which one) re legislative changes for DSP living overseas.
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Post by Banjo on Jun 20, 2012 10:32:07 GMT 7
Centrelink would have 28 days to appeal to the AAT, but they rarely do.
With me they took the full 28 days to decide not to.
I think a key point in any appeal by you would have to be that your residency should only have been considered since the legislation changed on 1/1/12; as you were considered a resident before then so only your travel this year should be considered.
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Post by lynnebali on Jun 20, 2012 10:39:36 GMT 7
Mentioned we had to be back by 1 January which we did only to arrive to find out they had cancelled pensions on residency issues. They asked how long I stayed in Australia this time. Told them 3 months. WOW! That's a record. They also targeted a lot of questions re grand daughter. ie who is primary carer. I thought htis a bit strange because gdaughter does not really play a part in residency issues though would give cause for my long absences. Ther was a lot of hmms inbetween silence.
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Post by scuzzy on Jun 20, 2012 11:28:05 GMT 7
They are basing residency appeals on current centrelink law. The only thing encouraging that was said 'if we decide to overturn the appeal don;t celebrate too soon because CL has the right to appeal to AAT. I just kept reinforcing no time linit was set by CL - only the 13 weeks and we abided by that law. If I had an oven I thnk I would be putting my head in it. The SSAT team was from Darwin. Can you imagine the Cops saying to the State Government "We're going to raise a lot of money for you by setting up speed traps and pulling over people for doing 60 and under in a 60 zone, but we're going to need you to pass some laws that will let us get away with it". And then can you Imagine the Government going "Yeah, sounds great. We'll pass those laws for you straight away and screw anyone who doesn't like it." Pure FaHSCIA-ism. |
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Post by bundyrum on Jul 9, 2012 8:17:29 GMT 7
got a SSAT COMMING SOON...ARO upheld the interviewer's decision..Aro was in Casino..the 1st interviewer said I'd been doing this since 2002..nothing taken into account about b 4 1st July 2004.Which makes it all irrelivent.Omg i hate rice..
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Post by scuzzy on Jul 9, 2012 8:34:22 GMT 7
got a SSAT COMMING SOON...ARO upheld the interviewer's decision..Aro was in Casino..the 1st interviewer said I'd been doing this since 2002..nothing taken into account about b 4 1st July 2004.Which makes it all irrelivent.Omg i hate rice.. Hey Bundy, how sure are you that you weren't 'grandfathered'? Have you already ascertained that you weren't? It's not always easy to figure out if you are or not, and even Centrelink struggles with it. It sounds from what you've said that there's a possibility that you might've been, but there's a lot of factors that come into play. I suppose what I'm getting at is that it's possible you were cancelled on residency grounds when in fact maybe you were in the class of DSP'ers who should have been able to keep claiming DSP overseas whilst no-longer being deemed 'resident'. The best place to start looking for clues is in your file. It doesn't have a big red stamp saying 'GRANDFATHERED' or anything, so you've got to know what to look for. Have you got your file? The most important part for you is to have your file going back to 2004. |
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Post by anotherdsp on Jul 20, 2012 10:13:23 GMT 7
to scuzzy,i have been reading my file and in it i have found where an ARO officer has put in that i was a grandfathered recipient since 2003,this was documented in 2009? but what does it really mean? cheers
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Post by scuzzy on Jul 20, 2012 19:19:20 GMT 7
to scuzzy,i have been reading my file and in it i have found where an ARO officer has put in that i was a grandfathered recipient since 2003,this was documented in 2009? but what does it really mean? cheers Well, It all depends on whether you are still grandfathered now. So, if the ARO recognised you as 'Grandfathered' in 2009, you'll have to look at your actions since 2009 till the present day to get an idea if you are still Grandfathered or not. What being 'Grandfathered' means is that when changes were made to Social Security Law in 2000 and again in 2004, people who were already on DSP and fit certain criteria were made immune from the changes and remain immune to any change in Social Security Law to this day. Also, people in this category, if they were overseas when the changes came in, were given the option of trading Australian Residency in exchange for Indefintite Portability. Now the problem was that they didn't explain this very well to people and didn't even bother to tell a lot of people who would be affected, so there are a lot of people who were grandfathered without ever knowing it. So, there is a chance that you already have Indefinite Portability, but it will really depend on whether you have ever been classed as an Australian Resident since the time in 2009 that the ARO identified you as being among this group. Basically, to have maintained your 'grandfathered' status, you will have not come back to Australia for any period longer than 26 consecutive weeks. You may have made several trips back to Oz, but none of those trips should have been over 26 weeks ( 6 months). You also would have not been getting the full DSP rate, but instead a 'proportionalised' amount based on your Australian Working Life Residency (AWLR). So, check to see if you've ever been back to Australia for more than 26 weeks during any one visit back. Then check the amount you've been getting paid against what the full amount is meant to be. If you are Grandfathered with Indefinite Portability, you would have been getting less. In a nutshell, unless you've been back to Australia for more than 26 weeks during any one particular visit since the ARO identified you as a pre-2004 Grandfathered case, then I'd be thinking you are still Grandfathered and still have Indefintite Portability (you lucky bastard) Since 2009 have you ever stayed outside Australia more than the 13 weeks? If so, what happened? Did you get cancelled, suspended, or did you keep getting paid as usual? You may have been coming back to Australia every 13 weeks when in fact you could have stayed away indefinitely. Now you have to be careful. If you are Grandfathered, then you are in a very different boat from just about everyone else on this forum. While everyone else will be busting a gut to prove their Australian Residency, you on the other hand will loose your Grandfathering and it's Idefinite Portability if you say you are an Australian resident.To be on the safe side, I wouldn't have any contact with Centelink until you've figured out where you stand. Remember, Grandfathering was only meant for Greek Australians so they could go back and live in Greece so they'd avoid the abolishing of portability that is now currently underway. The rest of you got it by default, but they don't like you having it and will try to snatch it back off you and snatch you back as a resident. I'm thinking that with the stakes so high, your next port of call should be Welfare Rights. You don't want to fumble the ball now. Is there anything in your file since 2009 that indicates you were 'un-grandfathered' or lost your 'saved' status? Is there any mention in your file of 'Resumed Residency' since that 2009 ARO entry? |
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Post by anotherdsp on Jul 20, 2012 19:36:10 GMT 7
to scuzzy,
well it sounds complicated mate,no i have not been back for 26 weeks at all, nowhere have i been ungrandfathered?
i still get the full pension medicare card etc?? so i am grandfathered but no indefinite portability??
i think i will contact welfarre rights as i have a ssat appeal coming up in a while about my residency,it seems like i am caught inbetween both systems grandfathered and not grandfathered??
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Post by Banjo on Jul 20, 2012 19:42:15 GMT 7
What do you think about him going back to the ARO and asking him if he considered this scuzzy?
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Post by scuzzy on Jul 20, 2012 20:15:08 GMT 7
What do you think about him going back to the ARO and asking him if he considered this scuzzy? I'd be afraid that the ARO may try to trip him up with his own words and try to get him to hang himself by unintentionally declaring himself a resident. I knew someone who lost their Grandfathered status along with their accompanying Indefinite Portability because during a trip back to Oz, a Centrelink officer over the phone asked "So you're an Australian Resident right?!" and that was it. It sounds like a harmless enough question to someone who doesn't know the in's and out's of the thing, but this one simple question and the even simpler and naive one word answer of "Yes" was all it took. If I was going to have a dialogue with Centrelink about it, I'd research the bejeezus out of the topic beforehand and really be on top of things first, especially how to establish that he hasn't resumed residency. I'd also want to run it past Welfare Rights just to get their take on it and maybe point out any pitfalls that may not be immediately apparent. But I just wouldn't trust them to do the right thing. I'd be afraid they'd try and snatch his 'Grandfather' status off him just for the sake of being the sadistic, fascist bastards who we've all come to know and love. But you're right Banjo, if I was going to talk to anyone about it at Centrelink, going back to the original ARO who at least had the nous to figure out he was grandfathered would probably be the best option. But I wouldn't rush into it unprepared. |
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Post by scuzzy on Jul 20, 2012 20:28:56 GMT 7
to scuzzy, well it sounds complicated mate,no i have not been back for 26 weeks at all, nowhere have i been ungrandfathered? i still get the full pension medicare card etc?? so i am grandfathered but no indefinite portability?? i think i will contact welfarre rights as i have a ssat appeal coming up in a while about my residency,it seems like i am caught inbetween both systems grandfathered and not grandfathered?? Hmmmmmm, indeed being in possession of the concession and medicare card as well as having been receiving full pension doesn't sound like grandfathered Indefinite Portability. That's not to say that you actually weren't entitled to it but Centrelink bungled the process. If that's the case and you've never done anything to qualify as a resident, like the 26 week visit, maybe you can revisit this option. It would take an appeal, and I don't know what the chances of success would be, but nothing's impossible. At the time this was all happening, the Greens protested to Senate that Centrelink wasn't doing enough to ensure 'customers' were being sufficiently informed of how they'd be affected. Ok, let's go to the next step. To get automatic Indefinite Portability, you had to have been overseas on July 1st 2004. But they also say "....overseas on or immediately prior to 1 July 2004 (whatever the hell that means). Can you check if you were? |
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