your best option

[roxane]

I talked to CI this morning, and I confirm that applying for unlimited port is very risky. As per the other posts.

BUT there is a way to get around it.
Depending on which country you're travelling to, you have to check the international agreement.
For ex. there is an int. agreement with Switzerland.
That means if you qualified as severely disabled you can stay longer than 13 weeks, and longer than 6 from next year.
Rules are less strict, under the Swiss agreement you qualify if you can't work more than 8 hrs / week.

The big difference is that you don't need to go through the JCA process.
All they look at is the docs you have already provided and it is assessed under the old system.
They might ask you for further docs, but you can always cancel your application if you think it's not gonna work.
At least you will know if you qualified for severely impaired.

I don't see much risk in that.
And if you qualify for the severely disabled, you can still apply for unlimited port after that.

[scuzzy]

Call me paranoid, but I don't trust that clause where you can pull the pin at the last minute if they indicate by the paperwork you submit that you wouldn't pass. That sounds to me like a trap to lure people in with a false sense of security so Centrelink can gather as much current intelligence as they can on as many people as they can.

They're not going to simply delete all that from your file. It will all get fed into that computer Centrelink calls 'Darth Vader' which crunches intel, statistics, demographics, personal info, banking records etc and comes out with names of targets to be added to the 'hit list' (as we've all seen with portability, you don't have to have broken any rules to end up on the hit list)

Remember, most people get booted off payments because of information they themselves supply to Centrelink. This accounts for more cancellations than even 'Dob- Ins'. They are providing everyone with enough rope to hang themselves. Ask yourselves; " Over the years, has Centrelink ever proven itself to be a trustworthy, sincere, good hearted organisation?"

They're the Gestapo, and I think we all know that deep down.

[roxane]

Yes, they are like the gestapo or KGB, but even they didn't hang everybody.
But they can't lie on how you will be assessed.
I think if what you have submitted at the time is genuine, then the worst thing what can happen is that you won't qualify for severely disabled. So at least you'd know that it's pointless to apply for unlimited port. under the new impairment table which is much stricter.

Of course double or tripple checking all the info is good idea.
As you said, trust is not one of C/L's profile.
That's why this forum is so good, we can share everything we can think of. (actually not everything, Big Bro is watching)

[spaceyone]

Jun 22, 2012 9:25:54 GMT 7 scuzzy said:

Call me paranoid, but I don't trust that clause where you can pull the pin at the last minute if they indicate by the paperwork you submit that you wouldn't pass. That sounds to me like a trap to lure people in with a false sense of security so Centrelink can gather as much current intelligence as they can on as many people as they can.

They're not going to simply delete all that from your file. It will all get fed into that computer Centrelink calls 'Darth Vader' which crunches intel, statistics, demographics, personal info, banking records etc and comes out with names of targets to be added to the 'hit list' (as we've all seen with portability, you don't have to have broken any rules to end up on the hit list)

They're the Gestapo, and I think we all know that deep down.

I'm with you Scuzzy. Just enough details, and a signature, so that it can be forwarded to the War Room in Canberra, for a thorough audit of everything you have done since you left school. In fact, they probably look through those records as well, to see if you ever got caught for wagging in the past.

I was audited by them, two years in a row, simply for pointing out that my JCA interview and report had been corrupted, and that I wanted a new one.

[roxane]

I'm just saying that if you think of applying for the unlimited port, maybe you should try first the lesser risk option.
spaceyone, what was the result of the audit?

[roxane]

I had another look at the Int. Agreements:
www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/publications/aia.htm

For some countries it states:
you are unable to work because of a severe disability

Some other countries it only says: you are unable to work
because of a disability - doesn't specify what kind.

So I might give another call to CI and check if you travelled to any of these countries where the agreement doesn't specify "severe", you might not require any kind of assessment.

I can see that carer payment is also available: "if you are providing full time care for your partner"

So guys if you travelling to these countries which have an Int agreement, it doesn't look too bad at all in my opinion.

If you are travelling to any other country, well, it's a different story
But for travelling to Europe this could be a good alternative.

Moreover I think that the Int Agreement is not something they could change very easily. Politicians think they smart, well, not that smart.

[baranghope]

Regarding the points about data saving by Centrelink, and Roxane's point about applying to Agreement countries for an older easier process. The New Forms, which I have, are all bar-coded, and most of the answers are computer readable, so rest assured henceforth yes, all in on their mother server. Roxane: I don't know about Switzerland, but they informed me I cannot apply now to live in my "home" Agreement country without the new Assessments, particularly if Centrelink will be paying the majority or all of your DSP. Game over. Australia have broken the "goodwill" in their international agreements, and are no longer willing to give you the Oz DSP rate, without playing Russian Roulette here. You are now basically trapped in Bliss Prison Farm.

[spaceyone]

Jun 22, 2012 10:53:54 GMT 7 roxane said:

I'm just saying that if you think of applying for the unlimited port, maybe you should try first the lesser risk option.
spaceyone, what was the result of the audit?

The first one was more financial and centrelink dealings, which found that in all my years on the sole parent pension, I had not ripped off Centrelink once. Actually, I did get a small bill, from a screw up they had just made, and I had to pay them back $200.

The second one, they included medicare records and checked with immigration to see if I had been going o/s and hanging out with Banjo and Banker. Lol, I pay rent on a home big enough to accommodate dependants, so no, I have not been overseas since I was very young.

However, what they should have found, was that centrelink then ripped me off, when they put me on the dole instead of DSP, when I could hardly walk, or support my own head on my neck, let alone go out to a job.

[roxane]

Jun 22, 2012 13:24:02 GMT 7 baranghope said:

The New Forms, which I have, are all bar-coded, and most of the answers are computer readable, so rest assured henceforth yes, all in on their mother server. Roxane: I don't know about Switzerland, but they informed me I cannot apply now to live in my "home" Agreement country without the new Assessments, particularly if Centrelink will be paying the majority or all of your DSP. Game over.

I don't get it. Are you saying that they breach the Int. agreement?
Is this Australia's International Social Security Agreements factsheets incorrect?
www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/publications/aia.htm

I asked the guy to send the information by mail, so I probably will receive it sometime next week.

I might call them up again to get more details. I don't want to call them too often though, if they get too irritated they might put us on a black list

[roxane]

damn C/L!!!!! Where do these moron c/l staff get the information from? I thought CI would give you correct information, but noooooo, they tell you whatever pops up in their f.ing little head.
I was clearly told by a CI person today, that under the int. agreement, no JCA required.
But hey, this is another f.ing bullshit.
I was googling up some more info and I landed on the claim forms page
www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/overseas/claim_overseas.htm

And guess what. Yes... for every single country there is a JCA claim form.
so what the f. was this moron talking about when he clearly said they will only look at the docs you've already provided and nothing else.
I'm wondering what he's gonna send by mail
I should have recorded that phone conversation.
This is appalling
I can see their tricky questions like this one:
- Is there any reason why you could not do a rehabilitation or
training program in the future?
questions about your doctors, specialist, they all very sneaky.

[Banjo]

Dick Smiths have a nice little Sony digital recorder for about 90 bucks.

[roxane]

haha, I can even get some discount from them :-)

I'm just wondering though is there a difference between Job Capacity - Customer Information form and job capacity assessment?
www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/forms/aus142?utm_id=7
the form don't have points or anything like that.
need further investigation on this

[roxane]

clarifying : if you travelling to any of the agreement countries, the process is exactly the same, have to be reassessed under the new impairment table. The only diffidence is that under the agreement countries you are allowed to work up to 8 hrs / week.

THe 6 WEEKS LEGISLATION HASN'T PASSED YET, SO THERE IS STILL A CHANCE.
START WRITING & talking TOP MPs!