Advice On Assesments From a Member.

[Banjo]

Hi Banjo,

Centrelink can insist as much as it likes that their assessors over-ride a members Doctor, buit this ISNT the case mate.

Having worked for Centrelink I have seen both sides of the coin, and having a fair degree of legal experience (including having been right through the military compensation / rehabilitation system twice, I can confidently state this:

Centrelink often has inappropriate people conducting JCA's - ie a psychologist for a person with physical injuries and so on.

Lets jump to the law for a moment. No legal practitioner can provide a legal statement that over-rides a more senior practitioner in the eyes of the law.

Example: In the case of an inured joint - reports are submitted to a Tribunal or Magistrate for a decision to be made in respect of the facts of a persons impairment - a physio says A, a GP says B, and an orthopaedic surgeon says C. The Court/Tribunal MUST accept the opinion in the following order - C; B; A - and god forbid some psychologist is in that mix they will be laughed out of the hearing.

Of course, in the case of a genuine Psychological impairment, I would suggest that Psychologist A, GP B, and Psychiatrist C - would give the same C, B, A precedence to weight of evidence.

SO - please advise your members - in the even that a member is inappropriately assessed (ie. non relevant quals of assessor) and that assessment is negative to the member, but at odds with the GP and other medical evidence at hand, then IMMEDIATELY file for a REVIEW with the ODM (original decision maker) - who 99.9% of the time will uphold their own decision as they are too stupid to see the error of their own ways (and mostly are towing the line to keep the DSP lines as thin as possible).

Then, if the decision is upheld, as expected, submit a WRITTEN request for review to the ARO (authorised review officer) with a document highlighting your facts of rebuttal, i.e. the medical evidence to the contrary - and ALSO, highlight that the assessor has NO LEGAL STANDING in opposition to your GP/Specialist and so on AND that (the member) will, if unsuccessfull at ARO, proceed directly and without delay to the SSAT - AND WILL SOLICIT THE SERVICES OF THE "WELFARE RIGHTS SERVICE" to represent them at that matter - and of course, the moment its heading to ARO, they should start talking with Welfare Rights as they are very much prepared to take up such a fight but cannot do so before SSAT stage.

Ordinarily, if you PUT GOOD COUNTER EVIDENCE AND REASONING to the ARO you stand a good chance of overturning the assessment (as I did - actually it triggered another assessement by an appropriately qualified assessor who was made intimately aware of the facts well supported by scans/speciallist reports/gp reports and that those opinioins far exceeded his own - he had to tow the line on opinion or he knew he had more paperwork to do if appealed again.. I made sure he knew that!).

Most people fail at the ARO because they only ask for a review.. (which is only desk based/file based) they dont actually state the points of challenge and reinforce the facts they are relying on. If you dont lay out the deficiencies your chances of success at ARO plummet by 90%+ so members SHOULD PUT EFFORT into this stage.

So..when Centrelink says their assessors reports take precedence.. it is the greatest bluff of hot wind and bullshit that was ever put made but.. they are hoping that claimants will simply give up and go away, the same as in the Military Compensation system.

So.. DSP OVERSEAS MEMBERS - get smart, and win!

Cheers and good work mate,

[scuzzy]

That was encouraging. Good on him. He's right, how can some Centrelink stooge over-rule a health care professional and get away with it?!

But the Assessor isn't assessing the applicant's medical condition, they're assessing the applicant's ability to do ANY kind of work for more than 2 hours, including being a head in a jar keeping a door open.

This is the cunning of this system. They aren't arguing with your doctor that you are 'severely disabled', and will likely even classify you as 'severely disabled' if your doctor's medical advice indicates it. What they will argue though is your ability to do ANY kind of work for 2 hours DESPITE YOUR SEVERE DISABILITY.

Because it's a 2 vote decision, and the JCA has the power of veto, you can't win. They exclude your Doctor's input into the JCA because in their words "..Doctors may be experts in their field of medical diagnostics, but it does not necessarily follow that they are experts in assessing work capabilities" and then go on to accuse doctor's of being 'too soft'. Enter JCA, exit unlimited portability and possibly even DSP.

This is just my take on it...I may be right off. I'm just concerned that if you are arguing the toss over a decision over whether you could do ANY kind of work for two hours, the fact that you turned up to the SSAT could be seen as evidence alone that you could. Can't you just imagine some smarmy Centrelink 'inquisitor' saying something like "Well,.. you made it here didn't ya?!"

I suppose you could succeed at the AAT, but that's a long row to hoe through un-chartered waters. I imagine at the end of the day, it's a lot more easy for them to prove that you CAN do any kind of work for 2 hours, as opposed to you trying to prove you CAN'T do any kind of work for 2 hours. And that's what it all boils down to under this new system.

[Banjo]

Exactly, it's crap.

[Denis-NFA]

scuzzy
i believe they have to nominate what 'work' you will be doing in those 2 hours.

if 'they' say you can work 2 hours then tell me what that work is.

otherwise, i can fly to the moon you know. how do i know i can fly to the moon. because other people have been there.

[Banjo]

You have to have dealt with these people to see what some of them are like.
They have a little knowledge and a little power and resent having their control over you questioned.

[Denis-NFA]

Banjo,
I worked with the c*nts at Child Support for 45 days out of 90.

I heard some of then talking about their ex's.

I was tasked with collecting money from the dead letter department of Child Support.

Back in the late '90's.

Mind you, my ex despite our agreement had dobbed me in to the same mob in 1990. Child Support rang me down south on the very day I had driven 12 hours back from Canberra, the roads out the back of Wagga were flooded and normally it takes about 8.5 hours, after applying for custody of my children. I lost naturally.

What I told that c*nt was that basically she could choose which nostril.

Then I end up working for the same mob!

At the same time I was boogeeing the Men's movement in to gear.

I fixed one, The Men's Movement, but Child Support (which is or was a part of the Taxation Department), I confronted the f*cking Communist leader and of course she sacked me.

[Banjo]

Good advice, the Specialist Occupational Physician sounds well worth checking out.

[nomadic]

Once again interesting reading but my latest tale of deceipt is different again. Up until recently i was considered severely with no work capacity. In my currently ongoing appeal i thought i was home and hosed as they still afree i have no work capacity with irreversible health. But i am jno longer severely under the new laws. C/l ODM told me nobody is considered severely anymore. The new impairment tables now dictate if you are severely or not. Under them if you can walk around a shopping centre unaided for ten minutes you do not qualify. As the latest ARO said to me. "if you can get on a plane you can't be severely disabled" One oif the many outragious things C/L staff have said to me over the years. So i went and got a neurolagist report along with a copy of the tables. I went back yo the ODm after realising that 9 out of the 10 examples given were applicable to me. So even with the neurologists reports she said to me"They are only examples and don'tmean anything" Absolute and utter (rubbish for want of a nicer word). Then the ARO upholds all that and currently i have tried ringing him from Thailand but no answer in two weeks. International then told me they'd tell him to call me. Ten days later and no call still. In the meantime i am given a number to call by Kathryn Campbell the secretaryof human services. I asked her a question by post in November and o nly got a fob off reply from the comical ali of australia. A guy called Peter Thompson answers on behalh of ministers, Jongjen and now Campbell telling me zero on what i have asked them all. I equate my situation as such. There is a bottle of beer on the table. Everybody, legal or otherwise agreses this is my beer. But to get it someone in power has to answer my question. That question is very easy. What colour is the beer bottle? So far all of the above via comival ali have responded with. Quote "THE SKY IS BLUE" unquote. Not once have they ever even acknowledged the question put to them. No mention of it in any way shape or form. So if they can't get you on work they will try another way anyhow. And still after eight years no one will tell me why they want to force me to live in Australia with no hope or future. While the lock the boat people out they Lock the disabled in. WHY WHY WHY? Keep fighting the *><?)(*&.

[Deleted]

 ok

[Banker]

Jul 14, 2013 20:43:39 GMT 7 @visarun said:

Let me get this strait. If my G.P. of 20 years fills out my application forms for unlimited payment and states I'm severely disabled and have no future ability to work, Centrelinks staff can judge me otherwise?
Is that what these c*nts are doing?
I was going to apply last May but on April 30th I was diagnosed with cancer(Lymphoma)so I've been busy dealing with forgoing systemic treatment. Choosing quality of life over quantity. I spoke with Anthonydsp today who has been granted U/P and he never mentioned this catch 22.

Politics? The art of looking for trouble
Finding it everywhere
Diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

Centrelink is playing with a stacked deck as usual. Pricks !

visarun this has been a bug in my side for a long time>>> How can some C/L monkey over rule a qualified Doctor, this is totally wrong. If we appeal C/L decision we can win, but it is happening to the sick & weak and they have no energy to fight back. This is where DSPoverseas and Australian Pensioner. org come into play by giving the victim some hope and advice to carry on.

[Deleted]

Cheers visarun.

[Banker]

Jul 15, 2013 6:41:02 GMT 7 @visarun said:

I gotta give it to you guy's Banker, all of you are doing a great job.
Good to know there is DSPoverseas and Australian Pensioner.org standing up for the little guy.
Cheers visarun.

Thanks for the kind words visarun, We do our best. The worst part of it all is having to put up with Banjo.

[Deleted]

"The Banjo, the instrument of the anti-social" (Michael Palin)

[Banjo]

I've found I get more done if I don't make friends.

[Deleted]

Same here Banjo, two's a crowd.