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Post by mick on May 16, 2013 20:26:13 GMT 7
Hi my name is Mick.
Well first of all this site is a great idea. A bit about myself, I am a DSP pensioner living in Melbourne but finding the cost of this place is crushing any reasonable standard of living. It is one of the most expensive cities in the world and that is why i'm planning to leave. I was paying an exorbitant amount of rent per week for a room that wasn't large enough to swing a cat, but thankfully that's over now. I am currently in the process of applying for UP of the DSP but am finding it a really time consuming and difficult process, as many of the members on this forum have found and still are by the look of it.
To start the ball rolling I went to my GP and got him to fill out the Portability form. He did a pretty brief job of that. After that I had an ESA which turned into a JCA. Three months later I receive a phone call from International Services in Tasmania telling me that my application has been rejected solely on the basis of what the assessor wrote in her JCA report. The assessor was a registered nurse who had additional help from a shrink. By the way I have never read so much rubbish in my life! That assessor twisted and convoluted the information I already had on file and evidence from my GP in such a way it played down all issues blaming my personality instead. She also omitted most of the crucial evidence. So I ring up Int Services again and ask them what needs to be done to meet their unreal stipulations, I speak to someone higher up who tells me that you have to be as assessed as unable to work any hours for the next 5 years. But he also said that an assessment of 5 years is difficult and 2 years of no work capacity would be more realistic, but I still missed out. Ok so I have asked for a review of all my evidence and am submitting a further specialist report, they said they will revue it. I have also asked if I can have another JCA but they have not encouraged that. So now I just have to play the waiting game. I must say it's going to cost the taxpayer heaps with people going to GP's and psychologists every other day to badger them for all these reports, but that's what has to be done I think.
Mick
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2013 21:31:46 GMT 7
Hi Mick, and welcome to the forum mate, it's a shame you didn't find the site sooner, but at least you have now and that's the main thing:) I will message you, and maybe we can work out a more realistic approach to your next JCA, that's if you would like to of course? Sounds like their typical bullshit and it doesn't seem to make sense with how they've voiced their requirements, but lets chat privately and see where it leads, Ok mate:)Once again, its good to see you here and good luck in the future... Cheetal:)
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Post by Banjo on May 17, 2013 4:15:05 GMT 7
Welcome the forum Mick and thanks for the PMs.
Cheetal has the experience in this field and no doubt will have some good advice. Personally I think it will be hard at your age, they seem to have targeted the under 35s for retraining, it was nice to see that there wasn't any talk of kicking you off the DSP though which shows you must have completed the assessment fairly close to 20 points.
I always say that it is worth having a talk to Welfare Rights, they may have a few ideas on preparing your appeal.
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Post by mick on May 17, 2013 13:49:59 GMT 7
Thanks Banjo and Cheetal I will do that. I have just called the portability team up again and spoke to them about getting another JCA. They want me to do it at the same place but said they wont give me that droopy nurse. I told them I would like to wait until I submit some MORE modern specialist evidence to prove that my conditions are not just laziness but genetic features of who I am which can be quantified on the DSM-IV and are unlikely to just vanish overnight no matter how many pills they try force down my throat. I am thinking I should ask for this next JCA to be tape recorded, maybe that would keep them honest. Any thoughts?
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Post by Banjo on May 17, 2013 15:02:17 GMT 7
I doubt that they would let you tape it officially, you could always borrow a smartphone and just stick it in your pocket.
The Assessors notes are placed in your file, to be honest I don't think they will differ at all from what actually goes on.
You may read here about people with huge problems with Centrelink, repeated appeals and even restraint orders placed against them.
All that considered I still believe that most of the people you will deal with are just public servants who want to do their job and go home.
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Post by mick on May 17, 2013 15:44:54 GMT 7
I read on a welfare site that you have the right to record your JCA, it was a Queensland site but I am guessing that if you were allowed it would be nationwide. I also did get a score of 20 points on the JCA but still had a work capacity. The JCA looked like it was written by a grade 3 kid it had spelling mistakes everywhere, I know that's not important, but most of all it failed to mention my personal history accurately. I am still surprised she even let me stay on the DSP with what she wrote. Perhaps the assessors get a bonus for rejecting peoples UP? Either way they are puppets on a string for the government. I read on this forum that precluding people on DSP to travel where they want for the three months would save the government 3 million bucks yearly, well it's going to cost them around the same if not more to go through all the new JCAs, appeals process and pressure on medicare from applicants running of to medicos at expense of the taxpayer. Running up a bill on the public purse I think it's a great hoot. But the issue is that people like ourselves on the DSP are forced to live in abject poverty in a greedy capitalist place like Australia, well at least that's my view if Melbourne. www.wrcqld.org.au/employment-services/what-you-need-to-know/job-capacilty-assessments.html
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Post by latindancer on May 17, 2013 16:02:42 GMT 7
All that considered I still believe that most of the people you will deal with are just public servants who want to do their job and go home. Agreed, however I think there are a few who do their job minimally, or are barely competent. Their overriding concern is keeping their job so they are not prepared to stick their necks out for you. I hate that feeling of being treated like one in a long line of people they are simply processing you through according to the rules, and they have one eye on the clock.
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Post by Banjo on May 17, 2013 16:44:03 GMT 7
OK about the recording, learn something new every day. Interesting that Mick was given his JCA report, I was refused point blank when I asked for mine.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 16:58:03 GMT 7
my advice: take a friend with it and introduce him as your legal advice. iam 100% sure the interview goes without hassle.
iam doing it all the time. bit effort but worth cos they not fool around with you.
taping could bring trouble if you present this as evidence later.
banjo, you can request a copy of the report. they have to give it to you. just tell them your lawyer adviced you and need this document.
if they still refuse than asked the officer for name and employers number. that should scare them off.
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Post by Banjo on May 17, 2013 17:17:41 GMT 7
I would have to apply through the FOI act again but it's a moot point now. I think that if you start talking legal advisers to Centrelink they could turn up with theirs.
If you want to take someone along, and I've gone with friends to support them, the best you could do is ask Welfare Rights to send someone along.
Why would they fool around with people? They stand to gain nothing personally out of being deceitful.... I've been dealing with them for years, I had 2 SSAT appearances and numerous JCAs, I've been cut off twice and investigated 4 times, I've got my file and it's as thick as 2 phone directories, I've never had a rank and file officer deviate from their standard official policy because of fear of a legal adviser.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 17:36:54 GMT 7
banjo the law is stretchable and they try not not tell people the whole story. if they see that people have no clue they take full advantage of it. by showing them that you know stuff they treat you different.
thats what i expirienced. many ways leads to rome.
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Post by Banjo on May 17, 2013 18:08:17 GMT 7
Well that's what we try to do here, give people the best possible background in Centrelink rules and the Social Security Act. Often just acting more confidently can make an interview go better and maybe swing a decision your way if it's a borderline case.
Centrelink's rules may be flexible on occasions but people need to know their rights under the Act as well.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 18:26:36 GMT 7
banjo, fully agree and thats why you and banker are here. you are covering this very well. i try to show a different approach and together with yours this could be the perfect combo for a sucessful fight.
i like the face to face stand off game, power play, manipulation, psychology... u name it cos in many cases its up to the other person how she/he writes things down.
most of the law is strechable and it depends how you sell yourself.
when doing assesments make sure what words you using cos this can sometimes mean the difference. etc ..
prepare uself well under the act plus a good dose of game play and better chance of outcome.
but thankx for this site cos its a good place to learn. we never stop learning.
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Post by Banjo on May 17, 2013 18:52:07 GMT 7
The law itself is not particularly stretchable, mainly we only contest the interpretation Centrelink has chosen to put on it. An example is the 6 week paid portability rule... there is no stretchability in that, it is in the legislation in black and white, and I do not refer to exemptions under the Act here.
However things like residency are stretchable, the law is not so plain on these, people need to know what they can and can't do to achieve their purpose even if Centrelink does not approve.
I see no point in stressing the worst case scenarios and frightening people, if you check our last poll you will see that many people are afraid to apply for the portability but many of those that have, have been successful.
We also do not discuss people's right to the pension here, if Centrelink says someone qualifies then that is all that matters, the rest is not our business. If they want to travel and the law says they can then that too, is all that matters.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 19:08:00 GMT 7
got you point and will be more careful with my posts. i just always say and type what i think. dont wanna frighten them just wake them up to be more careful.
especially with IP/UP issue i talk to my lawyer and he said it can back fire on some people later regarding old age pension time/medicare claims etc .. he also said there is no time frame on it and if they wanna change again they will and can do any time.
people have to just consider whats the best for them and also should see the down site of things.
just wanna point this out nothing more , everyone else has to make their own decision.
cheers and keep up the good work.
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