New DSP O Seaer/ Portability

[zeno]

Hi I'm new here just found this site to get clear about CL and my rights with traveling and DSP. So I am still exploring this forum and it looks helpful  .

I have a severe disability that I was born with and have been traveling on the pension for a number of years.I applied about 5 to 6 years ago for permanent portability and it was granted to me , I can remember asking about staying longer overseas and asking for a review to asses this portability ,as I was told I needed to have another review to get this granted. After the review I recieved a short note confirming that I had been granted portability , as to if it was permanent , I can't remember right now. But i remember that I requested to stay longer than the required time allowed to stay overseas .

 After my trip which was in a non agreement country ;I came back and stayed in Oz for some time
and then called to notify that I would be leaving for another trip but was told that my portability didn't apply anymore ( I must have had an indefinite portability !!)  as the
rules had changed. That because I was in Oz before a rule was changed that I was now under the new rules , I had to be overseas to retain my portability.

 I have somewhere a short e mail written by the staff in international DSP and it was confirming that my portability was granted after they reviewed me .

Now I am wanting to go overseas for as long as I want ,should I appeal the above decision even though its been a while ? Can I get my indefinite portability if that is what it was!! reinstated ?

 Also I have been reading other threads and I have discovered that you can stay in Oz as much as you want if you've been granted indefinite portability , and this contradicts the advice I was given by DSP international .

Is it correct that you need to undergo another review to leave to an agreement country for staying longer period than the 6 weeks ?and that they determine if you are severely disabled and unable to work for 7 hours a week  then according to this determination you are allowed to travel to an agreement country ?  I would like to stay longer in a non agreement country also; does having indefinite portability allow you to stay in Non agreement countries?

any clarification and help would be most appreciated ,

Greetings and Cheers,  Zeno .

[zorro1]

Hi Zeno, welcome to DSP :-)

You are the second person to post in the last few weeks that has lost the portability due to being in OZ when the rules were changed. Also one of our members made a call or 2 to C/L management and was told the same thing about the current Unlimited portability rules and that being you must be out of the country if the laws change in the future.

All of this contradicts their residency requirements buts its becoming obvious to me that Unlimited means stay out of the country for good and there should not be any problems however I would take a bet each way and touch base every 6 months and hope to hell they dont change any laws whilst Im there.

Regarding your appealing I would suggest that it would be a waste of time because as mentioned above its the law your either in or out. It certainly wouldn't hurt to appeal however I would set the wheels in motion for a new application and that way you can minimize the time frames.

[Deleted]

Welcome to the board Zeno:)

[Banker]

Another case of Centrelink moving the goal post to suit themself, Yes appeal the decision and also contact Welfare Rights.

Please always keep all documents from C/L, if they want to see them just give them a copy.

Welcome to the forum.

[baranghope]

Yes Zeno you have to undergo a full Medical Review and Job Capacity Assessment before Centrelink will let you go beyond 6 weeks to live in an Agreement country. 20 points severity is not an issue for you, and to move to an Agreement country you don't need 20 points in one category anyway, just the same averaged total you need to get the DSP. All this jazz is to stop disabled economic refugees fleeing Oz for Greece, like the good old days.

Sounds like you might have another route back to unlimited portability (UP) . . . if you read the proper section in Human Resources regarding who can get UP, well before July 2012 some were granted it (and still can be) if the secretary accepts you have a patent or absolutely obvious severe disability. No med review nor JCA required, and if this is you in the past, you have a case along those lines.

With regard to Agreement countries, what I am getting at is this: Oz always agrees to top up any pension you get in your original birth country to a level equal to the full pension you would get onshore in Australia. In terms of government coffers they love to send you to Canada, or Denmark right, because CL know the top up is less than say Greece. Kapisch? If they let you go to Greece they are stuck with the full restaurant bill for life. All the offshore restrictions are geared to departmental expenditure, saving bucks, or keeping your welfare payments onshore.

[Banjo]

Welcome to the board Zeno.

As Banker says, an appeal and Welfare Rights are a sensible move but have you actually spoken to Centrelink International personally?
If not it may be a good idea just to find out the full story, they don't tend to give much detail in emails.

It seems you have been grandfathered and breached the rules by returning to Australia for too long, if so it may be quicker and simpler to go through a new assessment for Indefinite Portability than fight this rule in the appeals system.
Welfare Rights may have some advice for you on this as well.

[fedup]

Still fighting and have nothing but contempt

Below is a copy of the email I sent to the Gestapo yesterday,and will be forwarding to those stated.


I have faxed the required documents,and would like to know if they have been RECEIVED 

I am so disgusted with your department it's legislation and how you faceless people ,with phones with no numbers, and invisible  pens ,can help destroy people's lives,and possibly kill people thru your immoral ,box ticking format in regards said policies.

The stress your departments cause is INHUMANE and highly immoral,seeing my mother today after I arrived in the country was distressing to say the least,she was lucky she was admitted to hospital when she was,as I was told if she was a few minutes later she could have died.

Thanks to your policies and lack of empathy,your department IS A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR in regards her condition,as I have said I am in the process of helping her relocate to her place of birth,Last time I was back for your INHUMANE and immoral six week turnaround,my mother changed her will,this time around she has changed it again ,as she is that fragile she feels and looks like death is near.

This may or may not be the case,but it is also taking a toll on my own health both emotionally physically and financially.

I now have nothing but utter disgust and contempt for centrelink and it's policies,and how they are  enacted toward those who are more VUNERABLE in society, and the repercussions of actions by faceless persons ,with numberless phones and invisible pens,making UNQUALIFIED DECISIONS ,which can result in all sorts of tragic events from the break up of families to the death of loved ones.

Ticking boxes ,to a set format,making unqualified judgements,disregarding others,are not the hallmarks, of how you people portray yourselves to the public at large,the FACADE of a CARING ORGANISTION  with empathy  and feelings toward those your so called profession are in to  help.

Do not take this as a personal affront ,or a reflection on you personally.

I have had just about all I can take having to prove my situation ,health wise, time and again,and as I have stated previously it is enough to cause someone to commit suicide,I myself am stronger than that,but putting up with jumping thru hoops and hurdles to prove something that has been proven more than twice,SUPER and TPD payouts thru ill health,and having to justify such as if one is some sort of fraudulent LIER ,is just about enough to tip the balance.Not to mention the thought of having to go thru an SAAT appeals court ,and treated like some common criminal or the insinuation or underlying threat that you may be cut off if you lodge the appeal that I am currently lodging .just sickens me .

How can anyone concentrate on getting their health in order and leading a semi normal life,when they have to go through this immoral process.

Prisoners are treated better, and their parole periods are longer

I shall be forwarding this on to the Obudsman, the health ministers on both sides of parliament ,and the Human rights commission,as well as the local welfare rights.

Utterly disgusted

[Banjo]

Good luck with that, you are forwarding it to the right people.

[wbmania72]

Hi Zeno, welcome to DSP
after reading your story i am certain that i am not the only one that in same situation.
exact same thing has happened to me in 2004 and i sure can feel you.
as the big guys say,they moving the post as they please.good luck(we all need it)
regards.

[zeno]

Thankyou for the feed back! I certainly feel that I have not been given the freedom to come and go as I please . Am I some pariah that they are making it hard for me to go for as long as I want? To come back into our country for some time should not be any problem for them also . I wish to have the freedom to decide how long I want to stay in and out of my country of birth .

As for some of the feedback , first it is good to get some good advice from you all and to see there is a channel for you to express your frustrations and problems about the system . Then I see there are some things I have no idea about , for example I did not know I had welfare rights! I used to think to go to citizens rights bureau instead. 

What I did a few months ago was to call DSP international and ask them about traveling longer overseas in a non agreement country . I thought because I have been studying philosophy on my own over the years , I would explain that I wanted to study overseas.Then they started asking me if there was a university in Australia that I was affiliated with for this study, and I said no . Then they said unless I have studied at university and have been granted some bridging course to travel there, then they would not allow me .

Then something was mentioned about going to an agreement country and that I was able to go to an agreement country for a longer period . So I casually said I would probably then go to Italy instead , this made the staff member sound very aggressive and he proceeded to speak in threatening tones towards me. By this time I had explained to him three or four times that I had been granted the portability previously but he kept on barking about something to do with another thing and I felt I was speaking to a brick wall .

I should have put the phone down there and then , as he was rude and I wrote his name down somewhere . When I pushed further for an explanation about about traveling and conditions, it was explained to me about going through a review again, about the JCA and about being severely disabled in order to leave to an agreement country . I then asked to have a review form and He sent me the forms . I asked if it would be okay to fill it out later ,as I was going away and wouldn't have time to send it in, he said it was okay .

When I got the form which I still have somewhere , I have to dig through a pile of papers right now to find it . It gave a condition which indicated that I would NOT be able to have another review again if I did NOT pass this review , it was something like that . There was some condition at the end of this form for it to be filled out in a  certain period of time and that they would make it hard to do another review , It was some thing like that . My option was to leave it alone and consider another time to sign it . Have any of you seen this form ?

All I want to do is travel and have the freedom to come back to Oz say every 6 months ! Actually I would love to come and go as I please anytime !This has broken up a relationship because I was required to come back here . And it really disturbed me that I have to rely on this and to have a friendship break up because of this 6 weeks thing .

I still seek clarity if I am granted UP; if it is then acceptable for me to go to any non agreement country indefinitly also . I will also seek advice from welfare rights .

Thankyou very much ,for your input .
Z

[Banjo]

Granted indefinite portability gives you full travel rights to any country.

[baranghope]

There was some condition at the end of this form for it to be filled out in a certain period of time and that they would make it hard to do another review , It was some thing like that . My option was to leave it alone and consider another time to sign it . Have any of you seen this form ?

Read more: dspoverseas.proboards.com/posts/recent#ixzz2ZTeCS8U3

Regarding your comment above Zeno, I have a copy of the first form sent out in Oz for UP (maybe I should frame that) which I never filled out and it was never returned. I was told no probs if you just let it lapse. Doubting that I phoned them and explained I had just been called up for elective surgery.

Personally I would never allow any GP you do not know extremely well to post in your forms, since CL allow you with prepaid envelopes to send in the GPs report yourself. Meaning, if the moron GP says you are fit for the Tour De France, you can just phone CL and back out of the application. Unless the GP's report is absolutely clear that you are utterly, severely disabled in one category, forget it . . . in fact you are needlessly risking demotion to Newstart (not ever likely though).

I don't know about this "return form or else" matter you refer to, as I do not see it in the old form I have. However, I tried the same trick you did with the CL operator, as in well screw UP why not just apply for transfer to my Agreement birth country. They said I would need in the end to submit a Certificate of Residency form proving I was a stamped Convict in my country of birth. This so the jerks here could watch me over there. And so I could not travel elsewhere.

All insane.

[Deleted]

Hope your poor old Mum picks up Fedup, and just try to hang in there old mate:)

[baranghope]

Zeno, a UP grant supercedes any concern about living in an Agreement Country, as in there is no stipulation about which country you can live in under UP. In fact you can probably end up back in your birth country with no concerns. Other than they will want your old social security number from any sophisticated country to track down your entitlements from your birth country so that they can subtract that from the Oz payments. They will even apply for you for your other welfare income. In other words, granted UP you might be better off not "residing" back home . . . as in they know you have no entitlements coming in Madagascar right.

[Deleted]

Hi Barangy I just wanted to acknowledge you publicly for the fine job you doing of late, and I must say also, that the shed needs more sharp tools like you old mate Keep it up Brother...