|
|
Post by gringo on May 22, 2017 18:54:20 GMT 7
Hi , i've been on UP for 2 years , living overseas. For family reasons i have to go back to Au for a short time , but have no idea what the rules are. How long can i stay before it affects my UP or do i have to contact Clink on arrival ? If anyone else has been in this situation please let me know what the rules are. thanks everyone
|
|
|
|
Post by Banjo on May 22, 2017 19:04:54 GMT 7
I went back this year for 9 days, in and out and said nothing.
OK, I'm on the Age Pension but Centrelink have me down as living overseas, I said nothing and heard nothing.
To be honest it would not hurt to give them a call while you're there and tell them the dates.
Who knows you may get your allowances back for a while.
|
|
|
|
Post by nomadic on May 22, 2017 19:10:15 GMT 7
welcome gringo. I have been on UP since 2013 and go back every year for about 5 or 6 weeks. I never contact them anytime as I was told not necessary. If you want a health care card on return just go into an office and they will give you a written temp one and post you a card. This year i got a new card in the mail a week after i arrived even though the current one was still valid for another 12 months and i didn't contact them either. so immigration keeps tabs on us for them for sure. I vaguely remember someone saying that if you stay longer than 9 months things may change. Not confirmed though so may be best to call international about it. But for me no problems at all for a few weeks.
|
|
|
|
Post by gringo on May 23, 2017 17:45:21 GMT 7
Thanks for the advice. Cheers
|
|
|
|
Post by itsmylife08 on May 23, 2017 22:16:07 GMT 7
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 4:48:27 GMT 7
Welcome gringo, as usual with DSS nothing is as it seems. All payments are residence based, some DSPer's have UP, all OAPer's have UP but as can be summarised from the examples below, reasoning is ambiguous. Cheers bear guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/3/1/1/101. Frequency & duration of the person's travel outside AustraliaA person does not need to be continuously present in a country in order to be residing there. A person holidaying or working temporarily overseas does not necessarily cease to reside in Australia while they are away. It is necessary to find the reason for being overseas and to look closely at the pattern and duration of time spent outside Australia in order to ascertain whether a person continues to reside in Australia. For Australian residence to be maintained during an absence, a person must demonstrate continued physical ties to Australia, the absence must be for a short duration, there must be a purpose for the absence and there must be a proposed end date for the absence. Taken in isolation, a 3 year continuous absence would be regarded as an upper limit to still being considered residing in Australia, unless there are special circumstances delaying a return. When looking at the pattern and duration of time spent outside Australia, if a person regularly spends more than 6 months a year outside Australia, then their residence in Australia is questionable. The purpose of an overseas absence may indicate whether a person continues to reside in Australia. The reason should be consistent with the intended length of the absence. For example, a person working on an 18 month overseas contract posting would still be considered to reside in Australia as long as they have demonstrated ongoing physical ties to Australia and a commitment to return to Australia at the end of the posting. It is not uncommon for a person to remain overseas for a lengthy period of time but state that they intend to return to Australia to live at some uncertain, future date. In general, when a person states that they are leaving Australia temporarily with the intention of returning to Australia, the person's 'intent' becomes less of a factor as the length of the absence increases. A person's physical ties with a country will normally take precedence over their intentions when lengthy periods of time are involved.A person who has spent the majority of their time overseas in the last few years and who returns to Australia to claim a benefit will not necessarily be eligible from the day they return to Australia. The person must demonstrate that their physical ties with Australia have been re-established, or are in the process of being established and that they intend to reside again in Australia. Example 1: Derek is single, aged 56, and has spent the last 2 years in Thailand as he prefers the climate and cost of living. He initially went for a short holiday and when he came back he rented out his furnished property in Australia on an indefinite basis and took on a long term lease of an apartment in Thailand. He is not employed. He keeps in contact with extended family by phone and has a return trip booked to Australia for medical treatment. He has to renew his Thai visa every year and does not consider himself to be a resident of Thailand because he is not eligible for a permanent visa there. He plans to return to Australia one day and for this reason has not sold his house.Derek's argument that he does not have a permanent visa to stay in Thailand does not override the fact that he spends the majority of his time living in Thailand. Based on the duration of his absence and the fact that his plans to return to live in Australia are vague, at this point in time he is considered to be residing in Thailand.
Example 2: John and Belinda are both retired and have rented out their home in Australia for 2 years while they are in Europe. Their vehicle is on loan to John's brother in Australia who is looking after their furniture. They have purchased a townhouse in Perugia in Italy for their daughter who will be studying at a nearby university for 4 years and they see it as a good investment. They plan to have an extended holiday in Europe after their daughter has settled into her first year of study. They have a firm plan to return to Australia at the end of the 2 years as John expects to be doing contract work for his previous employer. Due to the fact that their plans in Europe are for a defined period and a short term purpose and there is other supporting evidence, they are considered to still be residing in Australia. |
|
|
|
Post by itsmylife08 on May 24, 2017 13:13:21 GMT 7
So if DSP with UP is residency based and the upper limit is around 3years for being absent , does that mean unless you return within that period there is a possibility that you could lose the DSP Pension . If so would a short visit of say 2 weeks reset the clock , or is there more to it  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 15:14:26 GMT 7
So if DSP with UP is residency based and the upper limit is around 3years for being absent , does that mean unless you return within that period there is a possibility that you could lose the DSP Pension . If so would a short visit of say 2 weeks reset the clock , or is there more to it That's the way the page reads Itsa, but who knows anyone it's happened tooAs with all things DSS they try to cover all bases in ambiguous language to try and confuse their clients. Their interpretations confuse me. Going on other members short trips in and out it appears to reset the clock, but then other guides state you can leave permanently and continue to receive payment indefinitely. Other guides say if you return specifically to receive a payment with the intention of leaving after the 24 months you will not satisfy the residence requirements and may be rejected. Others still suggest if you return, receive a payment then return to an agreement country you wont have to do the 24 months. So in summary, don't think about any of it too much unless contacted. Light reading to confuse.....cheers bear  guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/7/2/1/10guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/7/2/2/10guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/7/1/4guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/3/1/1/10 |
|
|
|
Post by Banjo on May 24, 2017 15:47:13 GMT 7
How long has UP been available now?
The first recipients must be coming up for 5 years.
A shame we never heard back from more of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by timber on May 25, 2017 11:27:53 GMT 7
This is my understanding of it, but it may not be accurate.
Dsp and Newstart and the granting of OAP are resident based. But UP of the Dsp is obviously not, because that is why it was created.
Maybe where UP people will have problems, is if they want to convert to OAP, and they are deemed to be non residents when they return to Australia, and then want to leave again to live overseas. They might have to spend the 2 years in Australia. I am just speculating on that point.
Although, hasn't there been members who have had there UP converted to OAP while still overseas?
|
|
|
|
Post by timber on May 25, 2017 11:31:14 GMT 7
So if DSP with UP is residency based and the upper limit is around 3years for being absent , does that mean unless you return within that period there is a possibility that you could lose the DSP Pension . If so would a short visit of say 2 weeks reset the clock , or is there more to it I am not so sure that page is referring to DSP with UP. Maybe only when you are applying for it. That reference to a 3 year absence also is not targeted at UP, but defining residence in general, for people who want to apply for any benefit. |
|
|
|
Post by Banjo on May 25, 2017 13:46:29 GMT 7
I've known a few who were grandfathered under the old DSP portability legislation who transferred to the Age Pension without any problems or without having to return to Australia.
This is almost certainly still happening.
I can't see why the government would want to treat people with UP any differently.
|
|
|
|
Post by Denis-NFA on May 27, 2017 21:19:45 GMT 7
I've known a few who were grandfathered under the old DSP portability legislation who transferred to the Age Pension without any problems or without having to return to Australia. This is almost certainly still happening. I can't see why the government would want to treat people with UP any differently. Just a couple of points, As Banjo suggests, because I'm on DSP with UP I fully anticipate being offered to convert my DSP/UP to OAP/UP without going near Australia. gringo, there has been some conjecture on the forum from time to time on how long you can return to Australia if you are DSP/UP. This is only hearsay because I cannot now find the source but I thought there was an AAT decision that covered this, some time ago. From memory the AAT decision was it was okay for 6 months! Others have suggested longer. I'd suggest you contact CL International and ask them. Explain why you are returning and your proposed duration. Let us know what they say please. Cheers |
|
|
|
Post by gringo on Jun 26, 2017 17:35:28 GMT 7
Hi guys , i just came back to Asia after a short trip to Aust. , i've called International while i was there and was told that up to 6 mnths stay it's all good. They were not very specific , but the 6 mnths kept coming up.
Thanks everyone for taking the time to answer.
|
|
|
|
Post by nomadic on Jun 26, 2017 19:15:42 GMT 7
Just to repeat some further advice on the topic. Not sure if still important or not. But on the residence thing; never tell tell them you are a citizen or even resident of another country. They tried to beat me on this but finally confirmed that i was an Oz resident as I can never stay in Thailand longer than 3 months and i have a family address in Oz and only Oz bank accounts. If I wasn't an Oz resident then i must be stateless which is all true as I can never be a resident in any other country. In certain circumstances you can become a Thai resident but I most certainly can't. So keep as many connections to Oz as you can if this ever crops up.
|
|
