|
Post by Banjo on May 22, 2013 19:09:46 GMT 7
Yeah, no problem ignoring it, I think I did as well. Because it's a JCA type assessment you have to ask to be assessed for work and then they tell you that you have no work capacity.
That was my take on it anyway.
|
|
|
Post by skeptic on May 22, 2013 20:45:16 GMT 7
Thanks for that Banjo, I didn't think I needed to fill it out.
|
|
|
Post by hypoman on May 22, 2013 21:26:44 GMT 7
Is the extension for the time required to submit the forms Sceptic? I can't see why they would want the doctor's report separately from the other stuff. Have I got this right? I'm recently returned myself and a bit zoned out, the flights are getting harder and harder. The lady I spoke to on the phone said that I didn't necessarily need to apply for unlimited portability as I could just apply for an extension of the 6 weeks allocated now. In other words before you need to travel overseas again just apply for more than the 6 weeks, tell them how long you wish to be away for and they will let you know. But she did say it involves getting a doctors certificate first. As I said I haven't heard that it was possible to ask for more than 6 weeks other than having to apply for U/P anyone else hear about this? it would be good to find out...
|
|
|
Post by hypoman on May 22, 2013 21:35:03 GMT 7
This will be the case when i apply for UP since 2002 so grandfathered Also have brain damage from brain trama accident do you think it best if get someone to go with me to say there going to take care of me overseas As they may say i am to bad to go alone (am sort of ok abit slow is all in thinking ) hi Dinky, mate I think being grandfathered were for those who were on DSP & out of the country at the time (in 2004 i think?). in my opinion its not a bad idea taking someone with you to the interview. I would make sure they are aware of your situation fully though. just watch saying your taking someone with you o/seas, then end up going by yourself as immigration and centrelink are linked. jsut my opinion mate...
|
|
|
Post by dinky on May 22, 2013 21:41:27 GMT 7
Thanks hypoman
I am doing the oxycontin thing at the present (as junkies get everything no questions asked )
just to put the iceing on the cake when I front up
|
|
|
Post by immiadvice on May 23, 2013 4:26:28 GMT 7
The lady I spoke to on the phone said that I didn't necessarily need to apply for unlimited portability as I could just apply for an extension of the 6 weeks allocated now. In other words before you need to travel overseas again just apply for more than the 6 weeks, tell them how long you wish to be away for and they will let you know. But she did say it involves getting a doctors certificate first. As I said I haven't heard that it was possible to ask for more than 6 weeks other than having to apply for U/P anyone else hear about this? it would be good to find out... The legislation clearly states that the portability for the DSP and some other payments is limited to 6 weeks. The only legislated extensions of portability can only be used once the person is already overseas. To my knowledge I am not aware of anyone being granted an extension. Reasons for allowing a discretionary extensionA discretionary extension may be allowed where the delegate is satisfied a recipient is prevented from returning to Australia before the end of the portability period. The reasons for allowing a discretionary extension are specified in SSAct section 1218C: if the person or a family member of the person (section 23(14)) is: involved in a serious accident, seriously ill, hospitalised, or the victim of a robbery or serious crime, if the person is: involved in custody proceedings, required to remain overseas in connection with criminal proceedings, other than in respect of a crime alleged to have been committed by the person, unable to return because of war, industrial action, or social or political unrest in which the recipient is not willingly participating, or unable to return because of natural disaster, if a family member dies. The event preventing the person's return to Australia must be extreme or of an emergency nature and must have occurred or begun during the allowable portability period. There are no provisions for pre-approved portability exceeding this other than: Indefinite portability of DSP - terminally ill disability support pensionersIn special circumstances recipients of DSP who are leaving Australia permanently and who are in the terminal phase of a terminal illness - where life expectancy is less than 2 years may be granted unlimited portability if they are: severely disabled (1.1.S.110), and the purpose of the absence is to be near or with a family member; or to return to their country of origin. Indefinite portability of DSP - severely impaired disability support pensionerFrom 1 July 2012 DSP recipients with a severe and permanent impairment and no future capacity to work are eligible for indefinite portability of their pension. DSP recipients applying for portability under these provisions are required to undergo a portability assessment which includes an assessment of their impairment and their future work capacity (JCA). To be eligible for indefinite portability under these rules, a DSP recipient must: have a severe impairment (1.1.S.127) which will persist at this level for at least the next 5 years (i.e. no significant improvement is expected to the level of impairment within this period), and have no future work capacity, that is be prevented by their impairment from performing any work independently of a program of support within the next 5 years, or be assessed as manifestly eligible for DSP under the current (post December 2002) manifest criteria. A DSP recipient is accepted as being prevented from performing any work if, because of their impairment, they are deemed unlikely to have any capacity to undertake work in the open employment market in the next 5 years, even with interventions. For the purpose of these provisions, 'work' means work that: is on wages that are at or above the relevant minimum wage, and exists in Australia, even if not within the recipient's locally accessible labour market.
|
|
|
Post by Banjo on May 23, 2013 4:52:04 GMT 7
Sounds right to me, I've never heard of anyone getting an extension.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 11:12:33 GMT 7
I sent my forms for U?P on the 17th of April and since I hadn't heard anything back from c/l I called them today, and lo and behold just as I suspected, I was advised that there was nothing on their system. In other words they hadn't received them, they somehow must of got lost in the mail. To cut a long story short I resubmitted them at a c/l office and was given an appointment for an assessment in about a weeks time from now. Does anyone know if you have to fill out the Work capacity section as it says and I quote "Who should complete this form? This form should be completed by a person with a disability, illness or injury who is looking for work and is applying for a Centrelink payment or claiming a pension from another country." I didn't fill this section as I am not looking for work but in my conversation with c/l international today I vaguely recall the lady from c/l mentioning something about work capacity. Any help would be appreciated as it could possibly mean another trip to the c/l office tomorrow. Hi Skeptic:) When I returned my forms last July; I actually photocopied and triplicated everything I had and sent 2 complete dossiers/application forms for that specific reason of being lost, and I sent them in a registered mail post pack so C/L couldn’t say they weren’t received! I sent C/L the two complete applications and they must have thought me stupid, but I didn't want excuses and I kept the other for my own personal records. So anybody undergoing any process of application or appeal with C/L, I would advise to make duplicates also. The trouble we go through to arrange documentary evidence is worth the time spent making extra copies, I believe! By not filling out the Job Capacity section in your application mate, then the forms would have become relatively useless and possibly why they’ve been "lost" I believe, unfortunately Skeptic! The whole point of the "IP" exercise is the job capacity section as a reference I think and I just checked over mine here for verification! Fill out everything pertaining to you on all pages with as much extended factual and verifiable information as you can supply, and with supporting affidavits and even get those from people who know you. Fill out every line in every box in fine detail and add extra pages of thought; don't omit a single thought or condition and also tick at least one of the 4 tick-boxes and I ticked 2 boxes for emphasis at times. I supplied a cover note from a JP who is a friend, a letter of explanation from my sister who I had made my correspondence nominee only weeks before, but reattached photocopy evidence of that as well. I also attached extra cover notes relating to and directed toward specific numbered questions, and in so doing my actual submitted application forms/files amount to 31 pages; delivered twice! I am a manic depressive but did not have time to worry while I arranged my documentary evidence, or leading up to the JCA even; I did worry a little in the 2 months I waited for the decision though! If anyone attends the JCA looking like million dollars, empty handed or unprepared and actually get “IP”; then good luck to them, because they will be a minority! I am also in the minority now because I was one of the very first to join the “Indefinite Club”; simply because I left nothing to chance or for them to assume of me! My assessor had so much paperwork in front of her, she did not know where to begin, and I was still offering extra written support to my claim even as I sat down. “Oh, I’m sure we have plenty of documentary evidence here, Mr Cheetal” she said? I even had a Medical CD containing my complete medical histories that I had requested by form at my doctor’s office, and had those sent there from hospitals all over Australia; which I told her she could also have but only a doctor with the relevant software could open it! If any one half fills out the requirements or their application is unsupported; then they only have themselves to blame if their application fails, I believe. Quite a few members have messaged me and asked for help, but they still don’t follow up on that request with me; which is their choice entirely and fine by me. Yet, they continue to post partial questions to the forum as to what they should do and only get partial answers obviously; which is also their choice! However; I honestly believe that the only way to front the process is proactively, diligently and confidently. When I formulated my stratagem I was working virtually blind, except for the combined wisdoms of Banjo and Banker and I remain here because I am obligated to help their cause and the forum members. Remember also, that nobody even knew what to expect last July/August or could offer any predictive input; except B&B! So I will leave this knowledge with you now Skeptic, and add that if you or any Team Member wants my help or have requested it; I am always open to helping you prepare for the dreaded JCA process; just PM me. Thanks for reading Team and have a Great Day! Cheetal…
|
|
|
Post by skeptic on May 23, 2013 22:24:44 GMT 7
Thanks for that Cheetal but I just read the request again. It states " This form should be completed by a person with a disability, illness or injury who is looking for work and is applying for a Centrelink payment or claiming a pension from another country." It clearly states "a person with a disability, illness or injury who IS LOOKING FOR WORK AND (mind you it clearly states "and" not "or") is applying for a centrelink payment.........." Having reread it again I am sure we don't need to fill it out, not that filling it out would hurt, it is just too late for me as I have submitted my info. I am waiting for a confirmation letter so if I get it, I suppose all is ok.
You said that if I hadn't filled all of the questions that they probably would have discarded my application (as much as I am suspicious of C/L) I still think they would have sent me a letter stating that I had left something out. It just didn't seem right from the start when there was no reply (paid) envelope included in my application as was stated. I thought about sending it by registered mail but I didn't do it. I have known for a long time that you need to make copies of everything you send them and luckily I had. My doctor is so heavily booked these days it would have been at least another 6 to 8 weeks before I could see him again, meaning another 2 month delay.
Since I am going for a review I requested my personal information C/L hold under the FOI. The lady from FOI rang me last week and asked me to confirm what I was after. I told her I needed to know what medical history they hold and what my job capacity is. She was very helpful and I now have those records. I would advise anyone else applying for U/P to do the same.
I will digress briefly to give you a little background on my situation. I was rejected dsp from 2002 up until 2009 even though c/l themselves had told to apply for dsp then for some unknown reason they denied it.(I had no idea about appealing at the time and was way too sick and depressed to worry about anything other than my health). Fortunately I am one of the luckier ones as my family were very supportive of me (unlike some less fortunate people who have no one to rely on for help) but unfortunate in that I was a financial burden to them and subsequently they were forced to sell their house.
It wasn't until I started going to Mission Australia (as directed by c/l) that my counselor suggested I should apply for dsp. I then made an appointment and saw a JCO (who previously had worked as a nurse) who stated that I had 30 points and only needed 20 and could not understand why I had been denied dsp in the first place. After her report I was given dsp.
Back to FOI request (and something you may be able to help me with Cheetal, or anyone else for that matter)I was given 20 points in one condition and 10 in another. Num Hrs/Week is 0-7. Previously to 2009 review my condition was listed as temporary (after 2009 listed as permanent) but the hours have always been 0-7. What do think my chances of U/P are?
|
|
|
Post by Banker on May 24, 2013 1:26:23 GMT 7
Back to FOI request (and something you may be able to help me with Cheetal, or anyone else for that matter)I was given 20 points in one condition and 10 in another. Num Hrs/Week is 0-7. Previously to 2009 review my condition was listed as temporary (after 2009 listed as permanent) but the hours have always been 0-7. What do think my chances of U/P are? I think your chances of getting U.P. are very good. Fight for it! Please keep copies of all documents etc.
|
|
|
Post by skeptic on May 24, 2013 21:56:28 GMT 7
Sorry for my spelling error in my last post as you all probably figured I meant "states" and not "sates"( done late at night ). Thanks banker, I do keep all my documents and I will keep you all posted. Do you think I should take my documents forwarded to me by FOI to my review or not, as C/L already have this information on file?
|
|
|
Post by Banjo on May 25, 2013 3:31:13 GMT 7
Fixed it mate, I know what a pain it is when you make a long post and further down the track there's an error glaring at you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2013 5:39:03 GMT 7
Excellent post Skeptic:) I can see how anyone could so easily read their opening and very misleading representation of who should fill it out and not do so; but I believe its a mistake in wording of the form? As stated under the box you've mentioned in privacy and personal information is this: quote "This form collects information about any disabilities, illnesses or injuries you may have and their impact on your capacity to work." end quote! So therefore; 98% of the forms questions relate to disabilities, illnesses or injuries that you have, and which could preclude a person from obtaining a job, do rehabilitation, or a training program in the future as stated in questions. It is the sole reason and purpose of why they send it to you, and it is also why the assessment is called a Job Capacity Assessment or JCA! They (C/L) are trying to ascertain in your own words of interpretation as to why you are unfit for work/other, and which needs to be supported by your doctor's medical prognosis! If C/L didn't want us to fill it out and submit it; then we have to ask why do they send it to everybody applying for "IP"? Now as for C/L sending you a letter saying you have not filled your forms out correctly; they didn't even ring me to say I had been granted "IP", so expecting them to write and ask you to submit more information is not on their agenda mate. They expect the applicant to ensure that their application is correct in every detail; or I suppose they would need to be constantly chasing so many trying to rectify approvals, and which obviously won't happen! There are so many applications now apparently, that if yours fell on a persons desk and your Job Capacity form was empty like it was; they just push it aside mate and move to the next.
At the bottom of the JC form we are told to (1) "read and sign your statement", and under that it says: Quote (2) "Attach any further information you feel supports your application. If you can not provide all of the documents immediately, do not delay returning your form. Please supply any remaining documents as soon as possible to Centrelink International Services, GPO Box 273, Hobart, TAS 7001, Australia. NOTE: if you are in New Zealand, lodge this completed form with Work and Income in New Zealand." end quote!
Unfortunately we can quibble all day about their opening phrase being wrongly misleading, and I am not trying to over-ride your response mate. I merely want those guests and new members who are thinking about applying for "IP" who read this, to get the right information and fill out the forms correctly, or they will find themselves in the same boat as you! The Job Capacity and Medical Report forms must both be filled out and that's imperative for any application to proceed smoothly as far as I'm concerned, and is obvious within the forms themselves. My heartfelt suggestion of advice to you Skeptic, is to call C/L International and clarify what you have done by not filling out the JC form. Once you do this your heart will be at rest and at that time if necessary, then re-request the forms be resent to you again; otherwise you could wait for months and never hear from C/L. Hope all goes well mate, but give them a call to just be sure:) Cheers...
PS... I think that if you have been classified as 30 points previously, then your already got me over coals mate; they only give me 20 x 2; so good luck with it all Skeptic old mate:)
|
|
|
Post by skeptic on May 25, 2013 22:32:46 GMT 7
Fixed it mate, I know what a pain it is when you make a long post and further down the track there's an error glaring at you. Thanks for that Banjo, I thought I was going insane there for a moment when I saw the correct spelling in my post.
|
|
|
Post by skeptic on May 25, 2013 22:52:31 GMT 7
Excellent post Skeptic:) I can see how anyone could so easily read their opening and very misleading representation of who should fill it out and not do so; but I believe its a mistake in wording of the form? As stated under the box you've mentioned in privacy and personal information is this: quote "This form collects information about any disabilities, illnesses or injuries you may have and their impact on your capacity to work." end quote! So therefore; 98% of the forms questions relate to disabilities, illnesses or injuries that you have, and which could preclude a person from obtaining a job, do rehabilitation, or a training program in the future as stated in questions. It is the sole reason and purpose of why they send it to you, and it is also why the assessment is called a Job Capacity Assessment or JCA! They (C/L) are trying to ascertain in your own words of interpretation as to why you are unfit for work/other, and which needs to be supported by your doctor's medical prognosis! If C/L didn't want us to fill it out and submit it; then we have to ask why do they send it to everybody applying for "IP"? Now as for C/L sending you a letter saying you have not filled your forms out correctly; they didn't even ring me to say I had been granted "IP", so expecting them to write and ask you to submit more information is not on their agenda mate. They expect the applicant to ensure that their application is correct in every detail; or I suppose they would need to be constantly chasing so many trying to rectify approvals, and which obviously won't happen! There are so many applications now apparently, that if yours fell on a persons desk and your Job Capacity form was empty like it was; they just push it aside mate and move to the next. At the bottom of the JC form we are told to (1) "read and sign your statement", and under that it says: Quote (2) "Attach any further information you feel supports your application. If you can not provide all of the documents immediately, do not delay returning your form. Please supply any remaining documents as soon as possible to Centrelink International Services, GPO Box 273, Hobart, TAS 7001, Australia. NOTE: if you are in New Zealand, lodge this completed form with Work and Income in New Zealand." end quote! Unfortunately we can quibble all day about their opening phrase being wrongly misleading, and I am not trying to over-ride your response mate. I merely want those guests and new members who are thinking about applying for "IP" who read this, to get the right information and fill out the forms correctly, or they will find themselves in the same boat as you! The Job Capacity and Medical Report forms must both be filled out and that's imperative for any application to proceed smoothly as far as I'm concerned, and is obvious within the forms themselves. My heartfelt suggestion of advice to you Skeptic, is to call C/L International and clarify what you have done by not filling out the JC form. Once you do this your heart will be at rest and at that time if necessary, then re-request the forms be resent to you again; otherwise you could wait for months and never hear from C/L. Hope all goes well mate, but give them a call to just be sure:) Cheers... PS... I think that if you have been classified as 30 points previously, then your already got me over coals mate; they only give me 20 x 2; so good luck with it all Skeptic old mate:) No problems, I appreciate all the help I can get. I will just have to give them a call on Monday and if I have to hand the rest of the paperwork in to C/L they can easily scan the JC forms just as they did with the forms they hadn't received. As I stated I have 20 points in my main disability the other 10 points was for depression, but since you can no longer combine two unrelated conditions (possibly related ones as well, not sure). My only concern (after reading the new tables regarding my condition) is one of the requirements I need to justify which is a little bit ambiguous. We will just have to wait and see as I don't like to count my chickens before they are hatched. Thanks for you words of encouragement though.
|
|