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Post by melaus on Jan 15, 2011 8:41:31 GMT 7
Wondering if anyone applying for the OAP has had problems due to regular O/S travel, but in reality still a definite resident.
I'm not in the position of applying as yet, but in a few months time will be.
I in the main reside in Australia. I worked here for 40 continuous years, was a few years back made redundant and am presently receiving the Newstart Allowance. I married overseas 5 years ago to a citizen of a country not with one of the pension agreements. We live here, but regularly travel back mainly for family visitation.
I have seen on other forums, persons having problems with Centrelink as being classed as Non Resident due to regular travel when in actual fact they are still in reality based in Australia. I have noticed on my Centrelink file, when their PC monitor is near to facing me, my trips all there in print. That is fine and I have nothing whatsoever to hide, but I'm wondering if this flagged info may cause me problems. I have been aware for a long time that all of these departures are seconded from the Immigration Dept. and understand the reasons for this.
I own my home here, have bank accounts, Medicare and Medibank.
Like the broad body of posts here, I understand that the officer you sit in front of at decision times, can influence your Centrelink "future" markedly, but would really like to hear if others have faced this situation and what they have been able to do about it!
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Post by Banjo on Jan 15, 2011 14:23:26 GMT 7
If you're on NewStart I'd say you have no residency problems at all. One of our members, Banker recently went on the Age pension after living overseas for years, and still does. I'll rattle his cage and see what he has to say. How do you go leaving Australia while you're on New Start? Do they suspend your payments and automatically renew them when you return or do you have to reapply?
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Post by melaus on Jan 15, 2011 17:01:13 GMT 7
Yes, the Newstart Allowance is definitely withdrawn as soon as you are stamped out. On return if less than 13 weeks away, you receive the allowance again, but need to reapply. If away for even one more day than 13 weeks, the reapplication is a bit more complicated, with a more tedious interview, but you are back into the system again. I think for memory there is a couple of weeks lead time before receiving the allowance.
One aspect which has been extremely annoying, is that on 2 occasions overseas I have opened my Centrelink on-line file and noticed a stern letter from them stating that I had left Australia without notifying them and them asking for payback of some of the allowance. Absolute rubbish as I had not only visited my local office and verbally informed them, but had given them a letter each time advising of my departure, the proposed time away and the reason for travel. This resulted in me having to call them, often a few times at my expense from overseas to sort "THEIR MISTAKE OUT" Emails don't have much affect as they say that they cannot reply in detail due to security reasons. Hardly any apology is given as you would expect!
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Post by Banjo on Jan 15, 2011 20:38:57 GMT 7
It's ludicrous that they keep you on NewStart if you're only a few months away from the OAP. The trouble is they wont go one inch over the line your way unless you really make a big deal of it. This is what we are trying to achieve here so more people know their rights and stand up for them. They fiddle the unemployment figures by pushing people onto the DSP who could probably still work with the right treatment and training and keep someone like you on NewStart. Crazy.
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Post by melaus on Jan 16, 2011 8:21:44 GMT 7
Quite agree.
I also have medical issues substantiated by my doctor of near 30 years, but recently when presenting a current medical certificate, a normal officer at the local C/L just looked at it and said 'HE' wasn't prepared to accept it. I need every couple of weeks to go to one of the support agencies and talk about finding work. Luckily, the lady I'm seeing is well up to date with the current purge whereby med certificates are virtually being ignored by Centrelink and she holds the opinion just to play along with their game. Thus I pop in and talk to here for a few minutes and she says just do this and in a few months time you can apply for the pension. Of course her agency is being payed by the government but it just goes to show how our taxes are being wasted. By Centrelink denying an easy path to the OAP a few months away they are paying agencies to supposedly find a near 65 year old with defined medical issues a job. I see on other parts of this forum this purge on medical certificates and it is obviously a definite 'current' campaign which needs a lot of facts gathered together to oppose.
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Post by Banjo on Jan 16, 2011 9:40:15 GMT 7
I've thought considerably about this, and while there is a lot of advice around about what Centrelink can and can't do, and what rights people have, I can't find much about how best the individual should deal with them personally.
I think that together we can formulate a personal experience based list of advice and suggestions on how people should conduct themselves at Centrelink interviews.
I personally despise the phone as means of communicating with them, I recommend that everyone dealing with Centrelink does so face to face. It's easy to sneer at someone on the phone but face to face is often a different story.
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Post by melaus on Jan 16, 2011 18:34:00 GMT 7
Again agree:
I don't advise telephoning over any problem issue. You can travel up the line of command at the centres, but to date I've not found any reason to do this, but are prepared if I strike trouble with this OAP application.
I think the first port of call when your back is to the wall, is to get to see one of their Social Workers. These so-called assessment (Job Capacity) Centrelink people who you are pushed to, who determine your ability to work and for how many hours are probably the first area of the problem. It is they in the main who decide during a quick interview to totally ignore your own medical professionals experience.
I'm not so concerned at present over any medical issues with Centrelink, as my fortnightly chat with the nice lady I visit is a breeze, as she is fully up with their current mucking people around! She told me just a few days back that she also has a client with exactly the same situation as my own, thus a few months from OAP and being pushed left, right and centre by ordinary staff at Centrelink.
My own current concern and hence the topic is perhaps having to deal with ordinary individuals at Centrelink who may take an attitude that my overseas travel doesn't fit their bill for OAP. Even though as stated above I have many strings to my bow which clearly indicate that I am indeed a resident. I did have a chat by phone a few months back with one of the guys in Hobart re this overseas business. He assured me that from what I told him that I will not have any problem, but did mention that I may need to appeal if the first application fails.
I have seen reports from many who are faced with this "away from Australia too much" on other forums and as yet cannot form any idea on just what their (Centrelinks) formula is for stating just what are the guidlines in giving you hassles in this regard.
My overseas travel is purely for family visitation and personal relaxation some of which is to do with a medical condition I have. I know that I am a 100% resident and I'm really not looking forward to anyone telling me during the next few months that I am not!
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Post by Banker on Jan 16, 2011 19:27:35 GMT 7
If you're on NewStart I'd say you have no residency problems at all. One of our members, Banker recently went on the Age pension after living overseas for years, and still does. I'll rattle his cage and see what he has to say. How do you go leaving Australia while you're on New Start? Do they suspend your payments and automatically renew them when you return or do you have to reapply? Banjo, You can rattle my cage in a few days when I get over the Arthritis in my hands.... I have just read the recent posts, I still say If your not happy with the decision start the appeal process. If enough people start the appeal someone might start to realize something is wrong with their SO-CALLED system. Cheers Banker
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Post by melaus on Jan 17, 2011 17:41:47 GMT 7
Thanks for the responses.
I'm really in the 'long run' not expecting any problem with an application, what is disturbing is just how this residency question in the prior two year period is interprated by whoever case officer you end up with initially. From what I gather one of the main proviso's is that you are resident in this two year period. But what does that mean exactly in regard to holiday travel. Are you breaking residency by taking an overseas holiday? Let's face it many who are retiring in their early to mid 60's go overseas for a big trip before settling into their retirement. The vast majority of these people would not have any idea of actually settling O/S but again from what I've read elsewhere, some Centrelink staff are coming down hard on applicants who don't appear to have their feet firmly on the ground here during their 63rd & 64th yrs. As I mentioned above, we take longish holidays as my wife is from overseas, is a Permanent Resident here, but has a large family circle at home. Is it possible that I could be penalised for travelling mainly once and sometimes twice a year after working here for forty straight years? I won't use the old clause about paying taxes here for all of those years, but many do and probably rightly so.
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Post by Banjo on Jan 17, 2011 19:17:19 GMT 7
Here's the law on this.. SOCIAL SECURITY ACT 1991 - SECT 43 Then go to... SOCIAL SECURITY ACT 1991 - SECT 7 (2) An Australian resident is a person who: (a) resides in Australia; and (b) is one of the following: (i) an Australian citizen; (ii) the holder of a permanent visa; (iii) a special category visa holder who is a protected SCV holder. (5) A person has 10 years qualifying Australian residence if and only if: (a) the person has, at any time, been an Australian resident for a continuous period of not less than 10 years; or (b) the person has been an Australian resident during more than one period and: (i) at least one of those periods is 5 years or more; and (ii) the aggregate of those periods exceeds 10 years. www.austlii.com/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ssa1991186/s7.html#australian_residentCentrelink says....To lodge an Age Pension claim you must be an Australian resident and in Australia on the day that you lodge your claim. To qualify as an Australian resident you must be living in Australia as: * an Australian citizen, or * the holder of a permanent resident visa, or * a New Zealand citizen who was in Australia on 26 February 2001, or for 12 months in the 2 years immediately before that date, or was assessed as "protected" before 26 February 2004. To be paid Age Pension, you also need to meet the 10-year qualifying Australian residence requirements, unless: * you are claiming under an international social security agreement, or * you are a refugee or former refugee, or * you were getting Partner Allowance, Widow Allowance or Widow B Pension immediately before turning Age Pension age, or * you are a woman whose partner died while you were both Australian residents and you had 2 years residency immediately before claiming Age Pension. Note: The 10-year Australian resident requirement means you have been an Australian resident for a continuous period of at least 10 years, or for a number of periods which total more than 10 years, with one of the periods being at least 5 years. www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/payments/age_residence.htm
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Post by Banker on Jan 17, 2011 20:59:43 GMT 7
Here's the law on this.. SOCIAL SECURITY ACT 1991 - SECT 43 Then go to... SOCIAL SECURITY ACT 1991 - SECT 7 (2) An Australian resident is a person who: (a) resides in Australia; and (b) is one of the following: (i) an Australian citizen; (ii) the holder of a permanent visa; (iii) a special category visa holder who is a protected SCV holder. (5) A person has 10 years qualifying Australian residence if and only if: (a) the person has, at any time, been an Australian resident for a continuous period of not less than 10 years; or (b) the person has been an Australian resident during more than one period and: (i) at least one of those periods is 5 years or more; and (ii) the aggregate of those periods exceeds 10 years. www.austlii.com/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ssa1991186/s7.html#australian_residentCentrelink says....To lodge an Age Pension claim you must be an Australian resident and in Australia on the day that you lodge your claim. To qualify as an Australian resident you must be living in Australia as: * an Australian citizen, or * the holder of a permanent resident visa, or * a New Zealand citizen who was in Australia on 26 February 2001, or for 12 months in the 2 years immediately before that date, or was assessed as "protected" before 26 February 2004. To be paid Age Pension, you also need to meet the 10-year qualifying Australian residence requirements, unless: * you are claiming under an international social security agreement, or * you are a refugee or former refugee, or * you were getting Partner Allowance, Widow Allowance or Widow B Pension immediately before turning Age Pension age, or * you are a woman whose partner died while you were both Australian residents and you had 2 years residency immediately before claiming Age Pension. Note: The 10-year Australian resident requirement means you have been an Australian resident for a continuous period of at least 10 years, or for a number of periods which total more than 10 years, with one of the periods being at least 5 years. www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/payments/age_residence.htm just a couple quick responses.. I was granted the OAP while I was overseas in fact i hadn't lived in Oz for 10 years, C/L just transferred me over from DSP, they told me that it was because I was grandfathered into the old system before 2002. This bit gets me>>>To be paid Age Pension, you also need to meet the 10-year qualifying Australian residence requirements, unless: * you are a refugee or former refugee, ( more rights than an Australian Citizen) Another one>>>To lodge an Age Pension claim you must be an Australian resident and in Australia on the day that you lodge your claim. (Not true in my case) What Im trying to say here is that I have read in different places over the past 5 years that some people that do apply for the OAP are told they must sign a document stating that they will stay in Australia for the next two years. This was first brought to my attention in 2005 by a guy i know well he fought them & appealed to his local member who finally got it all sorted for him, his local Member said that it was just more C/L B/S. Cheers Banker
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Post by Banjo on Jan 17, 2011 22:49:10 GMT 7
Take note though, the law says...
5) A person has 10 years qualifying Australian residence if and only if:
(a) the person has, at any time, been an Australian resident for a continuous period of not less than 10 years;
The way I read that, you could have left school at 15, worked in Coles until you were 25, gone overseas until you were 65 and return and be eligible for the OAP. There's nothing at all about coming back for 2 years, unless it's further down the act and I missed it.
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Post by melaus on Jan 20, 2011 16:20:06 GMT 7
The pre 2 year restrictions and some having to give an undertaking that they will remain stay-put in Australia for 2 years if they succeed in an application, is a favourite and common discussion on some other overseas based forums.
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Post by Banjo on Jan 20, 2011 17:38:31 GMT 7
The laws black and white to me.
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Post by melaus on Jan 22, 2011 9:04:11 GMT 7
Appears "Black & White" yes but the main problem here is the way Centrelink staff can twist it around to suit the flavour of the day in their own mind.
Thanks to a forum such as this the ideas and experiences help you go to them armed with answers.
I've called the Tasmanian overseas section a couple of times over recent months and clearly spelt out my situation. No point not telling them the exact matter as it would fire off the wrong response and you are no better off. Anyway on both calls I was told that I should not have any problem with an OAP application, but also on both calls I have been told that I may need to go one rung up the ladder if the first application meets a problem.
This is where I come back to the point that it is not Black & White sufficiently to have a smooth ride.
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