|
Post by tasjo on Oct 27, 2021 11:29:40 GMT 7
Eligiu - do you recall if you have ever had an IQ test, or what assessments were done when to diagnose your autism? If you fit within the manifest category the JCA may be completely different for you, but I believe you would have had to have been assessed before you were 18.
|
|
|
Post by tasjo on Oct 27, 2021 11:36:11 GMT 7
Eligiu - I'll write a reply a bit later so that I can make sure I'm not confusing things any more than needed (hopefully)... sorry, just about to do school pickup etc and don't want to rush a reply and give you the wrong info
|
|
|
Post by eligiu on Oct 27, 2021 12:32:20 GMT 7
Eligiu - do you recall if you have ever had an IQ test, or what assessments were done when to diagnose your autism? If you fit within the manifest category the JCA may be completely different for you, but I believe you would have had to have been assessed before you were 18. I had no IQ test but even if I had one I wouldn't fall into manifest. I have 3 degrees and I fall into the 'extremely gifted at certain things, absolutely rubbish at other things' autistic category with ADHD as well. My IQ was tested at school and it was around 130-140 so there's no way I'd fit into manifest and I have no intention of trying to do that as I work with a client who has a manifest IQ difficulty and I wouldn't dare to imply that I have the same level of disability as him (he is my absolute favourite client though).
|
|
|
Post by genx on Oct 27, 2021 15:25:38 GMT 7
eligiu - 10 to 12 hours per week of actual work is what is causing you the problems. I get that you have a certain schedule that takes up all your time, but if you look at the Centrelink point of view there is no way for them to handle that. I've posted stuff here in the past about how Centrelink handles things behind the scenes. "Too busy with treatments, therapy and support workers" is not a Centrelink criteria. I know it sounds insane, and that its not acknowledging your issues, but this is the way Centrelink works.
If you are working 10 - 12 hours a week, at best Centrelink will assess you at being able to work under 15 hours a week, but most likely they will assess you at being able to work more than 15 hours a week with a program of support. Your hectic schedule will be put down as a "barrier to work" that a program of support will ostensibly be able to overcome.
Is the work you are doing on the open labour market? That is, is your employer an ordinary employer or is the employer a "benevolent employer" that is unlikely to be an employment experience replicated? If its a benevolent employer, then you aren't working on the open labour market, which makes your employment irrelevant for the open labour market test that Centrelink applies.
|
|
|
Post by eligiu on Oct 27, 2021 15:37:54 GMT 7
eligiu - 10 to 12 hours per week of actual work is what is causing you the problems. I get that you have a certain schedule that takes up all your time, but if you look at the Centrelink point of view there is no way for them to handle that. I've posted stuff here in the past about how Centrelink handles things behind the scenes. "Too busy with treatments, therapy and support workers" is not a Centrelink criteria. I know it sounds insane, and that its not acknowledging your issues, but this is the way Centrelink works. If you are working 10 - 12 hours a week, at best Centrelink will assess you at being able to work under 15 hours a week, but most likely they will assess you at being able to work more than 15 hours a week with a program of support. Your hectic schedule will be put down as a "barrier to work" that a program of support will ostensibly be able to overcome. Is the work you are doing on the open labour market? That is, is your employer an ordinary employer or is the employer a "benevolent employer" that is unlikely to be an employment experience replicated? If its a benevolent employer, then you aren't working on the open labour market, which makes your employment irrelevant for the open labour market test that Centrelink applies. I don't understand what a benevolent employer is? Can you explain that more? As far as I know I work on the open market. I work as a disability support worker through an open labor website where I just signed up and work. They will likely to be assessed as barriers, but they probably won't find that a POS will be able to fix them. Like I said I don't mind doing a POS for another 6 months and with Centrelink if the DES can't increase my hours due to my barriers and exits me for that reason, that counts as an exemption from the POS as far as I know. They can try with all their might but I have done some research on this and to my knowledge if they fail at increasing your hours they have to exit you, and you can then qualify for DSP. Edit: I also have a friend who got DSP while working. He just had to try 3 times and get a report stating that yes he did work, but it was under 15 hours a week and that job was the only job he could do. He was in severe/extreme for mental health, like me (my psychiatrist thinks I lean more into extreme).
|
|
|
Post by tasjo on Oct 28, 2021 17:57:28 GMT 7
Eligiu- just trying to keep track of everything and provide you with as much advice as possible.
- if initially a Health Care Card (HCC) would be sufficient, I would check if your income is below the threshold for one while you go through the DSP process
- your previous assessment of 15-22 hours would be unlikely to change initially. While it's not necessarily fair or correct, generally members of the forum have found that their last assessment is where Centrelink start. This would not meet DSP qualification criteria.
- you can exit a POS on health grounds prior to applying for DSP. It's something worth considering if you think you may not get 20 points on one table. But, if you are happy to do another 6 months on a POS, then apply for DSP and appeal if required, no need to complete this step.
- sometimes we have seen forum members assessed only on their disabilities that cause the most impairments so whenever you do apply it's very worthwhile differentiating between the functional impacts of your different disabilities.
It's great you have a support psychiatrist because they cam make all the difference.
|
|
|
Post by eligiu on Oct 28, 2021 18:20:24 GMT 7
Eligiu- just trying to keep track of everything and provide you with as much advice as possible. - if initially a Health Care Card (HCC) would be sufficient, I would check if your income is below the threshold for one while you go through the DSP process - your previous assessment of 15-22 hours would be unlikely to change initially. While it's not necessarily fair or correct, generally members of the forum have found that their last assessment is where Centrelink start. This would not meet DSP qualification criteria. - you can exit a POS on health grounds prior to applying for DSP. It's something worth considering if you think you may not get 20 points on one table. But, if you are happy to do another 6 months on a POS, then apply for DSP and appeal if required, no need to complete this step. - sometimes we have seen forum members assessed only on their disabilities that cause the most impairments so whenever you do apply it's very worthwhile differentiating between the functional impacts of your different disabilities. It's great you have a support psychiatrist because they cam make all the difference. I'm on jobseeker again now, so I do have a HCC and will be having another JCA next week after I initially have to waste time going to a non-disability provider. But I'll go anyway and see what they try to do. I'm bringing a support worker with me to help me during the meeting. I don't doubt I'll get either 20 or 30 points in mental health. Even the work aspect of the 'extreme' category states that 'the person is only able to attend work, study or training sessions for short periods of time' and my average 2 hour shifts fall into that category if it's interpreted the way that it is written. Centrelink often word things quite vaguely though but my psychiatrist interpreted it the sane way I did. I also fall into extreme for behaviour, social isolation, and interpersonal relationships. Because of how much support I require (once a day) an argument could be made I fall into extreme for that category as well, by if not, severe is only twice weekly support so I fit into that one. Additionally, mental health is a 'most' and there is no stipulation that I need to meet the criteria for work. It does not say 'a b c d e and work capacity (f)' it just states 'most of the following apply.' My psychiatrist wrote me a report that got me 26 sessions of funded psychology from the NDIS when eceryone else is being told to use their MHCP so I'm pretty confident in her ability to write good reports. She wasn't very happy with the psychologists one as she said he described me on my best days, not during weeks where I refuse to leave the house and eat slices of cheese for dinner because that's all the food I have left in my fridge despite having money to go shopping, or the fact that he said 'I can socialise for an hour before feeling tired' instead of pointing out that that is with my closest friends - I do not go to social events, I do not talk to people I don't know unless I been brought there by a support worker and even then I won't actively engage with people. I'll just do the activities. He was really strength focussed and listed all the things I can do, instead of all the things I can't do. I think I will start with a DES and see how they handle all of my health needs. If they can accommodate it, great. I'll stick out the 6 months then bring the report out anyway. If not, I'll get exited because of health reasons and use the FOI request I did to community mental health services regarding the last time I tried to work 40 hours a week and ended up in the Urgent Mental Health Care Centre and with community mental health after planning to kill myself. It's not a place I want to ever be again and this is my way of trying to keep myself safe. The level of stress I was under without the support I have now is what drove me there. If I lose this support because they want me to work, realistically I'll just end up in the same place. Thank you for everyone's advice.
|
|
|
Post by genx on Oct 28, 2021 20:19:18 GMT 7
I don't doubt I'll get either 20 or 30 points in mental health. Even the work aspect of the 'extreme' category states that 'the person is only able to attend work, study or training sessions for short periods of time' and my average 2 hour shifts fall into that category if it's interpreted the way that it is written. A benevolent employer is one that allows you to do unusual things, like walk off the job unannounced, lets you take unscheduled breaks. Maybe even one that lets you do 2 hour shifts (unless that is the usual thing for ALL the workers there). Most regulations do not even allow for 2 hour shifts. She wasn't very happy with the psychologists one as she said he described me on my best days, not during weeks where I refuse to leave the house and eat slices of cheese for dinner because that's all the food I have left in my fridge despite having money to go shopping, or the fact that he said 'I can socialise for an hour before feeling tired' instead of pointing out that that is with my closest friends - I do not go to social events, I do not talk to people I don't know unless I been brought there by a support worker and even then I won't actively engage with people. I'll just do the activities. He was really strength focussed and listed all the things I can do, instead of all the things I can't do. It takes some courage, but you have to return the reports to these specialists when they are unsatisfactory and point out the errors to them. Usually the specialists have just overlooked things in good faith and would be happy to make appropriate adjustments.
|
|
|
Post by eligiu on Oct 29, 2021 3:36:57 GMT 7
I don't doubt I'll get either 20 or 30 points in mental health. Even the work aspect of the 'extreme' category states that 'the person is only able to attend work, study or training sessions for short periods of time' and my average 2 hour shifts fall into that category if it's interpreted the way that it is written. A benevolent employer is one that allows you to do unusual things, like walk off the job unannounced, lets you take unscheduled breaks. Maybe even one that lets you do 2 hour shifts (unless that is the usual thing for ALL the workers there). Most regulations do not even allow for 2 hour shifts. She wasn't very happy with the psychologists one as she said he described me on my best days, not during weeks where I refuse to leave the house and eat slices of cheese for dinner because that's all the food I have left in my fridge despite having money to go shopping, or the fact that he said 'I can socialise for an hour before feeling tired' instead of pointing out that that is with my closest friends - I do not go to social events, I do not talk to people I don't know unless I been brought there by a support worker and even then I won't actively engage with people. I'll just do the activities. He was really strength focussed and listed all the things I can do, instead of all the things I can't do. It takes some courage, but you have to return the reports to these specialists when they are unsatisfactory and point out the errors to them. Usually the specialists have just overlooked things in good faith and would be happy to make appropriate adjustments. It's disability support work, so all the people working there are allowed to work 2 hour shifts as that is the minimum amount of time we can be booked for (although I think the minimum is 1 hour). It's just because the people we support may only want a one or two hour shift. In terms of the psychology report, that one is weighted as being the least important. They prefer psychiatrist and GP to psychologist so I was basically just not going to use it and just rely on the specialists report.
|
|
|
Post by mspurple on Nov 2, 2021 15:24:39 GMT 7
Sorry for posting when I do not think I can help with any information but I really want to ask if the 10 points for being on buprenorphine is an actual fact or if it is more an opinion.
Full disclosure- I am prescribed buprenorphine and I do honestly admit that it messes with my mental abilities in certain areas of my life as well as messing with my physical health but I am seriously surprised to read that it comes along with 10 points.
Is this real bear?
|
|
|
Post by bear on Nov 2, 2021 16:07:49 GMT 7
Sorry for posting when I do not think I can help with any information but I really want to ask if the 10 points for being on buprenorphine is an actual fact or if it is more an opinion. Full disclosure- I am prescribed buprenorphine and I do honestly admit that it messes with my mental abilities in certain areas of my life as well as messing with my physical health but I am seriously surprised to read that it comes along with 10 points. Is this real bear? Until the OP comes up with a link I'm saying it's anecdotal @mspurple. For all of my time on here it's the first I've ever heard of medications being linked to the points tables. If they are, I'd expect there to be a table out there somewhere for public consumption. Cheers bear
|
|
|
Post by genx on Nov 2, 2021 17:48:40 GMT 7
Until the OP comes up with a link I'm saying it's anecdotal @mspurple. For all of my time on here it's the first I've ever heard of medications being linked to the points tables. If they are, I'd expect there to be a table out there somewhere for public consumption. Cheers bear In the DSP application form, there is space for detailing the side effects of your medications. Ironically, because this is in the applicants part of the form, anything the applicant claims about side effects is self-diagnosis and won't be taken into consideration at all. If a doctor wrote about the debilitating functional impacts of a given medication or treatment, I expect that it would be taken into account in the points table.
|
|
|
Post by bear on Nov 2, 2021 19:52:17 GMT 7
It would absolutely be reflected in the points tables genx; through as you've stated, functional impacts!! That's a whole lot different to saying just by being on a particular medication it's worth X amount of points straight up though; as has been stated!! So what's Haloperidol, Risperidone, Olanzapine, Quetiapine, Clozapine etc. worth individually just for being on them. @mspurple seems genuinely interested; as am I. Cheers bear
|
|
|
Post by genx on Nov 2, 2021 19:57:34 GMT 7
Absolutely; that's a whole lot different to saying just by being on a particular medication it's worth 10 points though as has been stated!! Cheers bear I think the context given by the OP strongly suggests that its speculation. I meet at least 20 for mental health impairment, and either 10 or 20 for autism. And 10 for being on Buprenorphine. I just have no idea who to get to write a report which captures the different aspects of my disabilities. No one gets to decide how many points something is worth other than the JCA.
|
|
|
Post by eligiu on Nov 5, 2021 1:31:16 GMT 7
Absolutely; that's a whole lot different to saying just by being on a particular medication it's worth 10 points though as has been stated!! Cheers bear I think the context given by the OP strongly suggests that its speculation. I meet at least 20 for mental health impairment, and either 10 or 20 for autism. And 10 for being on Buprenorphine. I just have no idea who to get to write a report which captures the different aspects of my disabilities. No one gets to decide how many points something is worth other than the JCA. "There is moderate functional impact from alcohol, drugs or other harmful substance use. (1) Most of the following apply: (a) the person regularly uses alcohol, drugs or other harmful substances and as a result experiences difficulties performing physical or cognitive tasks; (b) the person often has difficulty completing daily tasks and responsibilities due to the short term or long term effects of alcohol, drugs or other harmful substances; (c) the person’s use of alcohol, drugs or other harmful substances is having a detrimental effect on family or social relationships and activities; (d) the person has more frequent difficulties in reliably attending appointments or completing duties or assigned tasks; (e) the person is often absent from work, education or training activities due to the effects of alcohol, drugs or other harmful substance use. (2) This impairment rating level includes a person in receipt of treatment and in sustained remission (e.g. a person who is receiving Methadone treatment or other opiate replacement therapy) and who is able to complete most activities of daily living." This quote is from table 7 of the impairment lists. It clearly states if you are on replacement therapy that you are assigned 10 points. The others are my 'opinions', based on what I can and can't do and the amount of support I require, but this one is quite clear in how it's laid out. That being said it's only relevant if you have a drug and alcohol problem. If you're prescribed it for pain, it doesn't seem to apply. Only if you're in sustained remission from drug use while on ORT. I assume the logic behind this is that as it's difficult to be put on opiate replacement therapy (they tend to only do it for people who are seriously addicted or have longstanding addictions), that someone who is on replacement therapies drug use would be so impairing not on therapy that it's still a moderate impairment while on therapy. That, and the process of getting the actual medication takes up a decent period of time, even when it's the injection it's a 2 hour appointment.
|
|