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Post by eligiu on Oct 23, 2021 13:41:28 GMT 7
Hi, I'm a 26 year old guy and I have several co-occuring disabilities that have really impacted my life. Up until this year I had a lot of support from friends helping me to keep things together but you know, people move on in life with jobs and families and when you're in my position... That just doesn't happen. I've achieved a lot in my life. I have two degrees (one in law) that I struggled through, and I do work (as a disability support worker with autistic people) but I can only handle around 10-12 hours a week due to my own support and therapy needs.
I'm on NDIS for level 3 autism, complex PTSD and bipolar disorder (unmanaged, mostly, because like most young people with bipolar, I refuse to take my medication quite consistently and end up in bad situations). I get 20 hours of support a week and I have around 10 therapies to attend. I'm also on Buprenorphine treatment for opiate replacement therapy which takes up some time. It is physically impossible for me to work more than I already am with the amount of support I get to function, and the amount of appointments I have to attend. Some days I'm in medical appointments from 10am until 5pm. It's just unreal, it's basically a full time job. My casual work plus my support hours per week are basically the equivalent to full time work (32 hours) and I have between 6-8 hours of therapy a week on top of that usually.
I meet at least 20 for mental health impairment, and either 10 or 20 for autism. And 10 for being on Buprenorphine. I just have no idea who to get to write a report which captures the different aspects of my disabilities.
I just finished doing all my NDIS stuff and I had a lot of help with that. I have no idea what to do with this. Do I get seperate reports for table 5, 6 and 7?
I've also been with a DES for 12 months over the last year and a bit and will be back with a DES within the next two weeks after going back onto jobseeker. I was with a DES when I just had CPtsd, bipolar and Suboxone treatment. Hadn't been diagnosed with autism at that point so I will definitely be being put back with a DES at the very least.
Any advice would be really helpful.
Edit: just to add, support work is the only work I can do. My autistic clients don't mind how autistic I am. In fact they like it. It's the only work that accepts my needs.
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Post by bear on Oct 23, 2021 15:36:35 GMT 7
G'day eligiu welcome to the forum. It's been several years since I've had much to do with DSP. Thankfully I'm now an Aged Pensioner. I think they must have dropped the 'OLD' thinking it'd be more politically correct. Perhaps so, though it doesn't alter the facts. We have a few members who have put in successful DSP applications in the last couple of years. The success doesn't really appear to have a great deal to do with your actual disabilities or how they impact you; but seems to rely more on how you address them in your application. In other words, like a job application. Tell them what they want to hear and you've more chance at success. So I'll leave it up to the more experienced recent members who've had an application be successful, and post a couple of links for your perusal; to get you started on 'TheJourney'. Again, welcome and please have a look about the accessible boards; cheers bear. dspoverseas.proboards.com/thread/6447/advise-on-assessment-memberdspoverseas.proboards.com/thread/5977/disability-support-pension-toolkit |
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Post by nomadic on Oct 23, 2021 20:29:02 GMT 7
Welcome eligiu. seems totally inappropriate to like your post. More like hate. The system has been totally destroyed by vile politicians and other Centrelink criminals. I would tar and feather the person who created the; Must be fully diagnosed, stabilized and fully treated before you can get DSP. In other words if you are still being treated for the rest of your days you can never get it. Stop being treated and die is their preference. Cancer patients even. But as bear says you must find out the rules and play their game better than them. First off get you Centrelink file which is easy enough to do. They are not just under any obligation to tell you what it says but they can also lie about anything to deter you. I was told so many lies in over 8 years and a lawyer took up my case and found out in 5 minutes of getting my file what they had concealed for 8 years. My case wasn't about getting DSP but rather portability and it should not have even occurred and still took 8 years to reverse it. They are criminals so it takes time and effort to get what you are entitled to. Hopefully with some advice from others not too long.
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Post by eligiu on Oct 24, 2021 6:03:13 GMT 7
Thanks for the links bear, I had a look through them and they're very useful. I'll make sure I keep that all in mind. Welcome eligiu. seems totally inappropriate to like your post. More like hate. The system has been totally destroyed by vile politicians and other Centrelink criminals. I would tar and feather the person who created the; Must be fully diagnosed, stabilized and fully treated before you can get DSP. In other words if you are still being treated for the rest of your days you can never get it. Stop being treated and die is their preference. Cancer patients even. But as bear says you must find out the rules and play their game better than them. First off get you Centrelink file which is easy enough to do. They are not just under any obligation to tell you what it says but they can also lie about anything to deter you. I was told so many lies in over 8 years and a lawyer took up my case and found out in 5 minutes of getting my file what they had concealed for 8 years. My case wasn't about getting DSP but rather portability and it should not have even occurred and still took 8 years to reverse it. They are criminals so it takes time and effort to get what you are entitled to. Hopefully with some advice from others not too long. I haven't applied for the DSP yet as I don't have my psychiatrist report. My report from my psychologist said my conditions were fully treated and stabilised, but the way he described my impairments wasn't very good. It was very much me on a good day and not a bad day, and he didn't say which category he thought I fell under. I'm thinking of showing the report to my psychiatrist so that she can copy the treatment information, then get her to redo my impairments as she did a fantastic report for the NDIS. I just applied for jobseeker to get a HCC while I wait to put my DSP application in. That being said, I already got placed with a normal job provider instead of a DES who could include my treatment and support in my job plan even though I uploaded heaps of medical evidence saying I'm very disabled, including a 15 page autism assessment and a medical exemption form. I still had to call them to get a new JCA. |
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Post by bear on Oct 24, 2021 6:32:12 GMT 7
Thanks for the links bear, I had a look through them and they're very useful. I'll make sure I keep that all in mind. Welcome eligiu. seems totally inappropriate to like your post. More like hate. The system has been totally destroyed by vile politicians and other Centrelink criminals. I would tar and feather the person who created the; Must be fully diagnosed, stabilized and fully treated before you can get DSP. In other words if you are still being treated for the rest of your days you can never get it. Stop being treated and die is their preference. Cancer patients even. But as bear says you must find out the rules and play their game better than them. First off get you Centrelink file which is easy enough to do. They are not just under any obligation to tell you what it says but they can also lie about anything to deter you. I was told so many lies in over 8 years and a lawyer took up my case and found out in 5 minutes of getting my file what they had concealed for 8 years. My case wasn't about getting DSP but rather portability and it should not have even occurred and still took 8 years to reverse it. They are criminals so it takes time and effort to get what you are entitled to. Hopefully with some advice from others not too long. I haven't applied for the DSP yet as I don't have my psychiatrist report. My report from my psychologist said my conditions were fully treated and stabilised, but the way he described my impairments wasn't very good. It was very much me on a good day and not a bad day, and he didn't say which category he thought I fell under. I'm thinking of showing the report to my psychiatrist so that she can copy the treatment information, then get her to redo my impairments as she did a fantastic report for the NDIS. I just applied for jobseeker to get a HCC while I wait to put my DSP application in. That being said, I already got placed with a normal job provider instead of a DES who could include my treatment and support in my job plan even though I uploaded heaps of medical evidence saying I'm very disabled, including a 15 page autism assessment and a medical exemption form. I still had to call them to get a new JCA. @eliglu this is a heads up just in case you aren't aware of it; in dealings with Centrelink only a 'Clinical Psychologist' is recognised and accepted as a medical professional. Also in your application it needs to be addressed as 'You on a Bad Day; which many of us know may end up being a week or even longer. A Google search or the people below will be able to put you in contact with welfare rights in your home state who can be quite helpful in addressing the criteria in the required format and help fill in applications. Having an advocate can be a definite advantage also. Cheers bear |
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Post by genx on Oct 24, 2021 7:28:07 GMT 7
Greetings, eligiu.
Do you have access to the documentation generated by your application for NDIS? You may have some letters in that from professionals.
How many treating professionals do you have? You want to get as many as possible onboard. I had a Clinical Psychologist and a Psychiatrist, plus my GP. What is vital here, absolutely vital, is identifying the specific FUNCTIONAL IMPACTS of your illness. Unless these are clearly detailed, your DSP approval will be delayed or denied.
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Post by tasjo on Oct 24, 2021 16:29:34 GMT 7
Eligiu - first and foremost I would be applying for my file via Freedom of Information. As others have said, often there is information that we are unaware of and trying to apply without it is like doing so one-handed.
In terms of Fully Diagnosed, Treated and Stabilised - be sure that whoever is writing reports or letters is aware of Centrelinks definition... for example- stabilised does NOT mean your condition cannot fluctuate (much as the JCA may think this is the interpretation). Take time to read the definition and understand how it applies to you and your conditions - for example, if you have a restricted medication or something that is known to give you severe side effects it is not a 'reasonable' treatment. Neither is something that is not readily available on the PBS.
As bear mentioned, for Mental health impairments (Table 5) must be diagnosed by either a psychiatrist or clinical psychologist. Any other information will be classed as supporting but you need to at least be diagnosed.
One issue you may encounter if you are working 12 hours a week is the assumption that 'with support' you can improve your capacity. The DES providers particularly, if you are assessed with a capacity of 8-15hrs, may determine that with support you can reach 15-22hrs (which means you won't qualify for DSP).
I did read that for Table 9 (Intellectual disability?) you need to be diagnosed before you are 18.
I'm not sure what table 6 is - could you refresh my memory?
Just be careful as well about 'crossover' between tables, unless there is a clear difference in functional impact (which you may have in your NDIS application). Centrelink will tend to only assess the condition that has the most impact in these instances, so it's worth being clear on the differences... ie the impact of my autism is x, y and z... the impact of my mental health condition is a b and c.
A lot of applications do get rejected initially. Don't be too disheartened if this happens but try to look at what centrelink assessed and address any issues with the claim.
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Post by rainyday on Oct 24, 2021 17:34:45 GMT 7
You may be aware you need 20 points, but you need 20 points under one Table so that you are exempt from doing the Program of Support (POS), which is done prior to receiving the DSP. The Program of Support is done over 18 months with a DES provider. You may very well have been exited from this, worth mentioning to you though. All the best.
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Post by tasjo on Oct 24, 2021 19:26:16 GMT 7
As rainyday mentioned, the other thing worth checking is whether there is any doubt over whether you will reach 20 points on one table or you will need to show you have completed 18 months on a Program of Support (POS). Work outside of what the DES provider knows of or education that isn't 'approved' can often not fit into a POS.
To exit the POS on health grounds it must be done prior to applying for DSP. It's worth checking in your FOI file thoroughly before you apply.
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Post by eligiu on Oct 26, 2021 9:40:44 GMT 7
For more information for everyone I think I was exited from the DES because I asked to be as I was no longer on Centrelink anymore and I was working more. I tried to work too much and ended up having what's called autistic burnout where I basically just fell apart and ended up in community mental health care before getting my diagnosis.
My psychologist is a clinical psychologist but he wrote about me on a good day and didn't include some of the more severe/extreme stuff like my consistent self-harm etc.
Table 6 is drug and alcohol related functioning. I am on opiate replacement therapy so to the best of my knowledge I qualify for 10 points for that automatically as without the therapy, I would be in 20 or 30 points due to the nature of my addiction. There have been points of my life where it was completely disabling.
I have a lot of letters for NDIS but none of them readily address the exact criteria that the DSP is asking for - they relate to the NDIS criteria (communication, mobility self-care etc).
In terms of support, I am unable to work more with support as the support takes up so much of my time. For example.
Yesterday I had the morning off, this is rare for me. I work every second Monday morning. I worked from 4:30-6:30 then had support socially from 7:30-9:30.
Today I had an appointment from 9:30-10, another one from 11-12, then I have one from 3-4. Then I have cooking support from 5-8.
Wednesday I have a nursing appointment 10-10:30, a social worker appointment 11-12, then support from 12-3. I then work from 6-7:30pm.
Thursday I have a doctor appointment from 8:40-9, then an intake appointment for drug and alcohol counselling from 11-12:30. My support worker is taking me there and staying until 2, then I work from 3:30-7.
Friday I have physio from 9-10, then a dentist appointment from 11-12. Then I have cooking support from 12:30-3:30. Then I have psychology for autism from 4-5. I don't work this Friday, but I work the following Friday, 5:30-7:30.
Saturday I have social support from 12-2 then I work from 4:30-7.
Sunday I have social support from 11-1 then I work 2-5:30.
This is a typical week for me, if not a less busy one.
I will have this level of support for 2-3 years, ongoing. And the amount of medical appointments I have is unlikely to change. I haven't included speech therapy (1 hr a fortnight/month) or occupational therapy (1 hr a month) or dietician (1 hr a month) appointments, which will also be included, or my monthly appointment with DASSA to get my opiate replacement therapy which is a 1.5 hour appointment. Also psychosocial recovery coaching (1.5 hours a week), and I also see a sleep doctor for Narcolepsy once every 3 months for my dexamphetamine prescription that only he can fill.
I would love to work more. I love my job. But 1) I don't get to choose how long my clients want me there so I can't just extend the shifts 2) I can't pick up any more shifts as I don't have enough time. It's just physically impossible for me to be in two places at once.
Maybe in 3-4 years I'll have less support and will be able to work more. But this level of support is not going to 'enable me to work more' as that was not one of my goals for NDIS. I was given this amount of funding because I don't cook, clean, shower, eat, take medication, or leave the house except to go to work. It was given to me for personal care, social engagement, and therapy. Working more is one of my long term (5-6+ years) goals, as well as finding more appropriate housing.
The thing is, I need time for myself too. Between running between medical appointments and work I get completely burnt out. That's literally why I need people to cook and clean for me. When I did my legal placement earlier this year and tried to work while doing it (around full time hours) I didn't cook, clean, shower or eat. I lived off up and go and lost 5kg. I had to cancel an inspection and my property manager got pissed off with me. Everyone else without this many medical conditions gets to relax on Saturdays and Sundays. I don't. I've chosen shifts specifically so I CAN work by doing them in the evening and on the weekend. I want to earn my own money, but I'm too disabled. If they make me work more I really will just burn out again and probably try to kill myself for the third time this year. And everytime I've tried to do that I've had to drag myself to work the day after attempting because I have no safety income. I had a 2 month long manic episode and had to refuse hospitalisation because I had to work. The only time in my life I've ever worked full time with no issues has been during a manic episode. I don't know what they expect me to do really. I can't just not do the therapies I need to do, I'll get even worse and deteriorate more and more. Not being diagnosed as being autistic is what made me try to kill myself the second time this year. The first time was because of my manic episode.
I am fully treated and stabilised. I've tried 10 different bipolar medications but I have a history of non-compliance which is why I have such frequent psychiatry appointments.
I've done CBT, CPT, EMDR and psychodynamic psychotherapy for 5 years with a clinical psychologist.
I've done seperate counselling that Ive sought out myself to get better, including group therapies.
I am not going to get any better at this stage, I've tried everything.
So all up I have:
Autism psychologist 1x per week
Mental health psychology 1x per fortnight
Psychiatry 1x per month
Dietician 1x per month
Speech therapy 1x per fortnight/month
OT 1x per month
Psychosocial Recovery Coaching 1x per week
Physio 1x per fortnight/month after 2 months
Podiatry 1x per month
DASSA 1x per month
Social Work 1x every 2-3 weeks
Drug and Alcohol counselling 1x per month
Trauma counselling 1x per month
Trauma recovery group 1x per month
Support from support workers for personal care, cooking, cleaning, and social engagement 2-3 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Stuttering social group 1x per month.
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Post by genx on Oct 26, 2021 17:03:35 GMT 7
Honestly I think your job is stuffing things up for you. Centrelink will always take the most optimistic view, so if can work at all, that creates a huge extra burden on your application.
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Post by bear on Oct 26, 2021 17:34:49 GMT 7
WOW eligiu that's some list!! I commend you highly for your work ethic, desire to be well and your want; to be a functioning member of our very broken society. However in my case after recovering from a work accident where I SHOULD have applied for DSP, like many Aussie blokes I said; "Nah it'll be right, I'll battle on." I did too, for another 7 years. Tried part time hoping to get back to full time; tried other jobs and found I couldn't cope with the work load. On and off the unemployment benefits and finally admitted to the psyche ward. Centrelink then put me on sickness benefits for two years, a round of appointments with CRS(Commonwealth Rehabilitation Services) and one day at a requested interview they gave me the DSP & TDR forms, said to fill them in and submit them. It's a different world now of course, and I was granted DSP; which I was truly thankful for. It was an epiphany of various sorts, to know that they knew and for me to finally realize that there's no shame in not being able do what I'd done all of my life, WORK; or in your case WANT TO....... At only 26 y.o. I can understand your desire and drive; but seriously with a list like that, you've got no time to work, let alone have time for yourself to find your personal equilibrium. Being granted DSP allowed me to finally get to know myself as the only things I had to do was provide myself with food clothing shelter, and Centrelink, the search and need for work that I was not now capable of were a but a distant memory through vinidaction. As a layman; from the looks of your list the older you get, the worse you'll get. That's how life and disease tends to go for most of us unfortunately. If I worked at Centrelink and you brought that post to the counter with a whole host of reports, I'd personally take you through to the back and see to it you were granted DSP before you left. Although it's only anecdotal from a member here, I believe such things have happened before today. "True acceptance of One's Personal Circumstances in Life Frees the Mind to find One's own Self. Denial of same may cause Shame Confusion Self Doubt which can lead into to Paranoia, followed by Acute Schizophrenia." That's all only in IMHO of course......but I'm not a medical professional!! Cheers bear  |
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Post by tasjo on Oct 26, 2021 19:17:48 GMT 7
Eligiu - I truly understand the desire to work and the benefits of doing so (particularly when your disabilities are stable).
Unfortunately, when you are in the 8-15 hr category, often the jca will come back with a 'predicted' capacity in the next band up (15-22 hrs). Your impairments and support from your psychiatrist may mean that you could appeal this decision if an application was declined, but I just wanted to make you aware that often the JCA will assess in this manner.
Exiting a DES provider is different to exiting a POS, there's a specific form (I'll check for the form number tomorrow) - once you have your file it's worth checking if you have one of them. If you think the form needs to be filled out, it must be done before you apply for DSP or it will be irrelevant to centrelink.
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Post by eligiu on Oct 27, 2021 10:48:08 GMT 7
Eligiu - I truly understand the desire to work and the benefits of doing so (particularly when your disabilities are stable). Unfortunately, when you are in the 8-15 hr category, often the jca will come back with a 'predicted' capacity in the next band up (15-22 hrs). Your impairments and support from your psychiatrist may mean that you could appeal this decision if an application was declined, but I just wanted to make you aware that often the JCA will assess in this manner. Exiting a DES provider is different to exiting a POS, there's a specific form (I'll check for the form number tomorrow) - once you have your file it's worth checking if you have one of them. If you think the form needs to be filled out, it must be done before you apply for DSP or it will be irrelevant to centrelink. I don't mean to come off as rude towards you, this is directed at Centrelink, but they can 'predict' my job capacity to be whatever they think. The fact is I've written out a schedule multiple times finding any possible area where there is enough time for me to fit in more work, and that time simply does not exist. I am unable to get to my appointments and work and have my support with enough time in the middle (driving to work takes between 15-45 minutes each way as well depending on where my clients live). It's really just not possible for me to work more and I may even have further therapy suggested for my autism by a speech therapist or an OT depending on how they think I'm going in their sessions. Level 3 autism is the most severe level. Most of us will never work full time because of our disabilities. I don't want to stop working because my lived experience benefits my clients, but I don't really know what else to do at this point. I have maybe one client I could stop working with and that would get me down to 8 hours a week one week, and 12 hours the next week or something. |
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Post by eligiu on Oct 27, 2021 11:10:32 GMT 7
Eligiu - I truly understand the desire to work and the benefits of doing so (particularly when your disabilities are stable). Unfortunately, when you are in the 8-15 hr category, often the jca will come back with a 'predicted' capacity in the next band up (15-22 hrs). Your impairments and support from your psychiatrist may mean that you could appeal this decision if an application was declined, but I just wanted to make you aware that often the JCA will assess in this manner. Exiting a DES provider is different to exiting a POS, there's a specific form (I'll check for the form number tomorrow) - once you have your file it's worth checking if you have one of them. If you think the form needs to be filled out, it must be done before you apply for DSP or it will be irrelevant to centrelink. I don't mean to come off as rude towards you, this is directed at Centrelink, but they can 'predict' my job capacity to be whatever they think. The fact is I've written out a schedule multiple times finding any possible area where there is enough time for me to fit in more work, and that time simply does not exist. I am unable to get to my appointments and work and have my support with enough time in the middle (driving to work takes between 15-45 minutes each way as well depending on where my clients live). It's really just not possible for me to work more and I may even have further therapy suggested for my autism by a speech therapist or an OT depending on how they think I'm going in their sessions. Level 3 autism is the most severe level. Most of us will never work full time because of our disabilities. I don't want to stop working because my lived experience benefits my clients, but I don't really know what else to do at this point. I have maybe one client I could stop working with and that would get me down to 8 hours a week one week, and 12 hours the next week or something. I'm ready to appeal. My psychiatrist writes fantastic reports and thinks it's ridiculous that I may not get DSP given that I work as the fact is that I'm working my full capacity, so she is going to address that and more in the report. She is including past treatment, results, impairment, my current support needs and current therapies needed for stability, plus my barriers to working more and is going to list my therapies. Additionally with mental health, working or not working is not a be all and end all on the impairment table and it's also not listed as part of brain function in table 7 (which relates to my autism). I don't quite know what you mean about the POS vs the DES. I was with a DES and I had a job plan and all that for 12 months or so, then I increased my work before I asked to be exited (practically had to beg for them to let me leave) and they finally did. I don't mind if I have to go back with a DES for another 6 months to get to the 18 months. I'll do it that way if I have to. But the DES will probably have to exit me as they won't be able to increase my hours either. I got assessed as working 15-22 hours last time after I was already working more than that due to my alcohol and drug addiction and having to go to the chemist each day. They actually dropped the amount of hours they expected me to work to 15 a week and I was working like, 40 a fortnight. Now I'm super autistic too and working far less than before and still on opiate replacement therapy. At the end of the day if this doesnt work out, having a health care card is the only thing I really care about. It'd be nice to live with some safety income Incase something happens. But my medication ATM costs $450 a month. So if everything else fails I just need access to that. Edit: sorry for the double post, accidentally quoted instead of edited. My mistake. |
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