NZ portability, defective administration claim

[sunshine37]

Hi there. I applied for unlimited portability of my DSP at the beginning of the pandemic. I had wanted to move back permanently to NZ for a long time though. I was successful. They took 9 months as they tried to tell me they were busy with applications of people oveaseas (even though you can't apply if oveaseas). I had to complain. Anyway Centrelink knew I was going to NZ my whole UP application was based on moving back to NZ to live in the country for my well-being and cooler climate for migraines. They never told me I would get a reduced percentage under the social security arrangement with NZ. Because I had this conversation with them a number of times. That it wouldn't apply to me as I'd be getting my DSP, ie the whole idea of portability. Now being honest hasn't served me well. I rang Centrelink International and told them I was staying in NZ. Next I get a message that my payment is reduced to $625 a fortnight. I felt physically sick NZ is so expensive! This was wrong, but I still loose $47 a week and now only get 89% of the dsp as it's calculated with the number of weeks since 20 years old or something. I am so annoyed as they gave me false and misleading information. They said if it was any other country in the world I'd get the full 100% of the basic rate.(minus some supplements). They said I could do a defefective administration application as my only option of recourse. The NZ equivalent isn't as much so I cant get a top up. Maybe some "temporary support" payment. But it was supposed to be easy so I didn't have to go through applying in NZ as no Doctor or medical history here. My disability occurred in Australia. I dont want to go on a NZ equivalent as then if I do move to another country one day I won't get a NZ benefit overseas. I'm a dual citizen. It seems weird NZ is the only country this is different when lots of countries have social security agreements. Thanks

[bear]

G'day sunshine37 _ 

I'm sorry to hear what's happened to you but; you are quite mistaken that NZ is the only country in the world that pays a reduced percentage of the Australian DSP; they all do, going on the information we have to hand.

 See #5 in the link:- dspoverseas.proboards.com/thread/7445/portability

Social Security Agreements have been topical of late. Here's a link to one regarding Slovenia and FAQ's. Have a read, then perhaps the NZ situation won't seem so dire.
 
www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/international/international-social-security-agreements/current-international-social-security-agreements/australia-and-slovenia-frequently-asked-questions

Taking Centrelink at their word has always been fraught with danger. It's why we advise to always get a receipt number for interactions with them. Not getting the receipt will see any phone interactions deleted after a certain amount of time has elapsed. That leaves the client in the unenviable position of a we said they said situation with nothing to back up any attempt of future claims such as CDDA (defective administration) or Act of Grace payment. BTW, false and misleading information is par for the course with Centrelink; in fact they're not obliged to tell you anything at all if they feel so inclined. Answer the call, get off as quick as the can and try to meet their KPI's..

Hopefully things will improve with the new government; and to have any hope of success on a claim, you'll you'll need an administrative lawyer prepared to work pro bono and take on the largest department of government. Good luck with it all, and again; I'm sorry my response isn't positive nor helpful. Cheers 🐻

[tasjo]

Hi Sunshine37 - I'm definitely no expert in them, but have looked at a few recently and can say that pretty much all of the Agreements are different in one way or another.

Is it possible that a supplement that used to be paid while you were resident in Australia is now no longer paid living overseas?

As bear mentioned, if yoy do call centrelink, please make sure you get a call reference.

[genx]

Do you still retain your Indefinite Portability. If so, move to Thailand or some other location for a while, one that doesn't have an arrangement with Australia. If you retain IP, Centrelink will be forced to restore your payment. Then henceforth, do not contact them.

[bear]

Jun 15, 2022 21:29:14 GMT 7 genx said:

Do you still retain your Indefinite Portability. If so, move to Thailand or some other location for a while, one that doesn't have an arrangement with Australia. If you retain IP, Centrelink will be forced to restore your payment. Then henceforth, do not contact them.

Nice thought genx though I'm sure if returning to NZ after a stint in a non agreement country, immigration would possibly have an obligation to notify Oz that they had a returnee Australian DSPer. I seem to remember seeing the ins & outs of it somewhere onetime and it sounded complicated.

Yes; previously to go to a third country you could go for 26 weeks. They've now closed that hole and tied it to the Australian portability. Though something doesn't seem to be stacking up. Why would anyone on DSP in NZ be constrained to non IP travel allowance; unless they  can go without having IP.

Sorry; above my pay grade. Cheers 🐻

Portability of payments
2.28The existing Agreement specifies that a social security payment covered by the Agreement is payable to a third country for 26 weeks.37 This differs from the current arrangements under domestic social security law in Australia. A carer payment is payable outside Australia for six weeks, and a disability support payment is ‘generally payable’ outside Australia for four weeks in any 12 month period.38
2.29The proposed Agreement (Article 14) amends the existing Agreement to remove the specified period of 26 weeks portability, and ties the portability provisions to Australia’s domestic social security law.39

www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Joint/Treaties/SocialSecurity-NZ/Report_170/section?id=committees%2Freportjnt%2F024055%2F24474

[genx]

Without a response form the OP we won't know. However, what I do know is that someone with IP but resides (not visits, but is actually a resident) potentially places IP status in jeopardy, to be replaced by some other status relevant to the agreement country.

If the OP can establish whether s/he still has IP, and does indeed still have IP, then the simplest way to handle it would be to cut the Gordian Knot and go elsewhere for a while to force a reset of the DSP payments. Even Australia might do. Then when leaving Australia again, go back to NZ via a third country like Thailand or Malaysia (and stay a while).

Once back in NZ do not take actions that can be construed as being resident there. Refrain from signing a rental contract. Instead, have a family member be on the lease. Ditto a mobile phone plan etc.

Then, if this happens to you again, rinse and repeat.

Where the government has an arrangement with a foreign country, they want to ensure that is being implemented. DSPers in a place like Serbia get reduced to the local pension rate, which I believe is less than 400 dollars a month. So you really don't want Centrelink in your business.

Ultimately, you may be forced into a decision about whether to stay in NZ or relocate elsewhere.

[Banjo]

We had a member fedup who went through this portability/New Zealand process over a considerable period of time.
Going back over his experience may be constructive.