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Post by bandwagon on Oct 25, 2023 13:39:29 GMT 7
Hello guys, it's the reformed antagonistic smartass Bandwagon, I'm just seeking advice about IP.
I've read on here (maybe elsewhere as well) some have said that IP is a work capability of 0-8 hours but some have said 0-4 hours can anyone please tell me the definitive amount if it's known please?
Thanks in advance.
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Post by itsmylife08 on Oct 25, 2023 19:58:16 GMT 7
Hello guys, it's the reformed antagonistic smartass Bandwagon, I'm just seeking advice about IP. I've read on here (maybe elsewhere as well) some have said that IP is a work capability of 0-8 hours but some have said 0-4 hours can anyone please tell me the definitive amount if it's known please? Thanks in advance. |
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Post by itsmylife08 on Oct 25, 2023 20:05:01 GMT 7
I got IP in 2015 and the requirement at the time was 0-2 hours, and thats a fact.
Cheers Itsa
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Post by anthonydsp on Oct 26, 2023 9:41:46 GMT 7
I got IP in June 2013 and it was 0-2 hours per week and 20 points impairment on 1 table it can't be 20 points combined on numerous tables
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Post by Denis-NFA on Oct 26, 2023 10:29:39 GMT 7
I got IP in June 2013 and it was 0-2 hours per week and 20 points impairment on 1 table it can't be 20 points combined on numerous tables same for me anthonydsp though mine was August 2013. |
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Post by bear on Oct 26, 2023 10:40:31 GMT 7
IP/UP is serious business bandwagon and all is not as straightforward as we'd all like. Centrelink need to be presented with Centrelink speak by your medical professionals. The more reports the merrier and if you've ended up on DSP through a legal process i.e. compensation claim etc., so much the better. Researching the forum, I have to concur with itsmylife08 anthonydsp & Denis-NFA , however there is actually no such thing as a legislated 0 - 2 hr per week rating per se that myself nor another admin can source. To obtain that classification you need to prove you have 'No Future Work Capacity' through your specialist medical reports. With luck a JCA assessor will then provide you with the classification. Below are a selection of posts from the closed boards....."Baseline: You have an impairment rating of 20 points or more in a single table. 1. The condition is fully diagnosed, treated and stabilised. 2. The condition will last more than 5 years and remain unchanged. 3. Future work capacity is less than 2 hours per week. If you meet all of the above criteria, and you have documentation by qualified medical professionals that states this clearly, you should be granted Indefinite Portability. Don't assume that Job Capacity Assessors will approve your application unless the functional impact of your condition is fully elaborated. You may think "but I had a lobotomy. Surely the JCA will understand the implications of that". No, they will not. The functional effects the lobotomy on your life must be clearly elucidated in documentation, and not merely by your own testimony, but by those people with medical standing to do so." "Lodged my paperwork today for indefinite portability. I was granted DSP on 09/02/2021 and the following day requested paperwork for indefinite portability. I received 20 points under table 5 for mental health. My treating psychiatrist completed the Centrelink doctor reports ticking the condition will persist for more than 5 years and remain unchanged for the next 5 years. Also he completed his own report to attach stating I have a permanent continuing inability to work and and no future work capacity and he recommends I be granted indefinite portability. I also attached to independent medical examiners report from my workers compensation both stating no future work capacity on the open labour market. So let’s hope 3 psychiatrist stating permanent incapacity helps me, I couldn’t possibly supply anymore supporting evidence." "Yes I’m hoping the medico-legal reports do hold some weight with the JCA seeing as these guys are paid to get us back to work. I have supplied two IME from seperate consultant psychiatrist both stating permanent work incapacity. And my own doctors report dated 26/02/2021 stating the same. But unfortunately the JCA can go against medical advice from the treating expert, but I do have a lot of comprehensive evidence submitted." "This is the exact quote stated in of of my medico-legal in regards to the question my capacity in the open labour market “ The patient has no current work capacity, he is totally unfit for any employment given the history provided at interview. Patient presents with a state of seemingly permanent work incapacity as a consequence of his chronic PTSD." " The Job Capacity Assessment is a medico-legal process in essence. You'll have excellent grounds for appeal if your IP application is rejected because there will now be two assessors with opinions at odds. All the JCA can do when going against your specialists is that the JCA is an expert in assessment. You have one of those also."
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Post by itsmylife08 on Oct 26, 2023 15:42:33 GMT 7
I got IP in June 2013 and it was 0-2 hours per week and 20 points impairment on 1 table it can't be 20 points combined on numerous tables same for me anthonydsp though mine was August 2013. Same here Denis, itsmylife08 Mine was February 2015, departed Australia 18th of April 2015. |
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Post by bear on Oct 26, 2023 17:24:11 GMT 7
IP/UP is serious business bandwagon and all is not as straightforward as we'd all like. Centrelink need to be presented with Centrelink speak by your medical professionals. The more reports the merrier and if you've ended up on DSP through a legal process i.e. compensation claim etc., so much the better. Researching the forum, I have to concur with itsmylife08 anthonydsp & Denis-NFA , however there is actually no such thing as a legislated 0 - 2 hr per week rating per se that myself nor another admin can source. To obtain that classification you need to prove you have 'No Future Work Capacity' through your specialist medical reports. With luck a JCA assessor will then provide you with the classification. Below are a selection of posts from the closed boards....."Baseline: You have an impairment rating of 20 points or more in a single table. 1. The condition is fully diagnosed, treated and stabilised. 2. The condition will last more than 5 years and remain unchanged. 3. Future work capacity is less than 2 hours per week. If you meet all of the above criteria, and you have documentation by qualified medical professionals that states this clearly, you should be granted Indefinite Portability. Don't assume that Job Capacity Assessors will approve your application unless the functional impact of your condition is fully elaborated. You may think "but I had a lobotomy. Surely the JCA will understand the implications of that". No, they will not. The functional effects the lobotomy on your life must be clearly elucidated in documentation, and not merely by your own testimony, but by those people with medical standing to do so." "Lodged my paperwork today for indefinite portability. I was granted DSP on 09/02/2021 and the following day requested paperwork for indefinite portability. I received 20 points under table 5 for mental health. My treating psychiatrist completed the Centrelink doctor reports ticking the condition will persist for more than 5 years and remain unchanged for the next 5 years. Also he completed his own report to attach stating I have a permanent continuing inability to work and and no future work capacity and he recommends I be granted indefinite portability. I also attached to independent medical examiners report from my workers compensation both stating no future work capacity on the open labour market. So let’s hope 3 psychiatrist stating permanent incapacity helps me, I couldn’t possibly supply anymore supporting evidence." "Yes I’m hoping the medico-legal reports do hold some weight with the JCA seeing as these guys are paid to get us back to work. I have supplied two IME from seperate consultant psychiatrist both stating permanent work incapacity. And my own doctors report dated 26/02/2021 stating the same. But unfortunately the JCA can go against medical advice from the treating expert, but I do have a lot of comprehensive evidence submitted." "This is the exact quote stated in of of my medico-legal in regards to the question my capacity in the open labour market “ The patient has no current work capacity, he is totally unfit for any employment given the history provided at interview. Patient presents with a state of seemingly permanent work incapacity as a consequence of his chronic PTSD." " The Job Capacity Assessment is a medico-legal process in essence. You'll have excellent grounds for appeal if your IP application is rejected because there will now be two assessors with opinions at odds. All the JCA can do when going against your specialists is that the JCA is an expert in assessment. You have one of those also."
A while back I said I couldn't find out how to differentiate between a 'Continuing Inability To Work' & 'No Future Work Capacity'. From the legislation:- SOCIAL SECURITY ACT 1991 - SECT 94 classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ssa1991186/s94.html#workContinuing inability to work
(2) A person has a continuing inability to work because of an impairment if the Secretary is satisfied that:
(aa) in a case where the person's impairment is not a severe impairment within the meaning of subsection (3B) or the person is a reviewed 2008-2011 DSP starter who has had an opportunity to participate in a program of support--the person has actively participated in a program of support within the meaning of subsection (3C), and the program of support was wholly or partly funded by the Commonwealth; and
(a) in all cases--the impairment is of itself sufficient to prevent the person from doing any work independently of a program of support within the next 2 years; and
(b) in all cases--either:
(i) the impairment is of itself sufficient to prevent the person from undertaking a training activity during the next 2 years; or
(ii) if the impairment does not prevent the person from undertaking a training activity--such activity is unlikely (because of the impairment) to enable the person to do any work independently of a program of support within the next 2 years.
Severe impairment
(3B) A person's impairment is a severe impairment if the person's impairment is of 20 points or more under the Impairment Tables, of which 20 points or more are under a single Impairment Table.
Example 1: A person's impairment is of 30 points under the Impairment Tables, made up of 20 points under one Impairment Table and 10 points under another Impairment Table. The person has a severe impairment.
Example 2: A person's impairment is of 40 points under the Impairment Tables, made up of 20 points under one Impairment Table and 20 points under another Impairment Table. The person has a severe impairment.
Example 3: A person's impairment is of 20 points under the Impairment Tables, made up of 10 points each under 2 separate Impairment Tables. The person does not have a severe impairment.
The above definition of 'Severe Disability' is why members are advised to appraise themselves of whether they are likely to be classified as such; either through FOI or your latest JCA report, available at your nearest Centrelink office because, having a 20 points or more on one table gives you NFWC and as such the most likely reason to fail a IP/UP assessment is through not attending to the six 'P's' mantra. Prior Preparation Prevents P#$$ Poor Performance. Cheers 🐻
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Post by itsmylife08 on Oct 26, 2023 20:09:24 GMT 7
You're on the money again bear with that it's all coming back to me now. If my memory serves me correctly, shortly after two compulsory conferences, and before I was due to go to the AAT for the hearing, I either got a call or a letter from Centrelink's Solicitor stating that they weren't going to contest my case. Obviously, this was fine, and I accepted their proposal, and here I am, as the saying goes... Cheers Itsa  |
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Post by bandwagon on Oct 26, 2023 20:49:39 GMT 7
I got IP in June 2013 and it was 0-2 hours per week and 20 points impairment on 1 table it can't be 20 points combined on numerous tables Okay thanks mate |
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Post by bandwagon on Oct 26, 2023 20:50:38 GMT 7
I got IP in June 2013 and it was 0-2 hours per week and 20 points impairment on 1 table it can't be 20 points combined on numerous tables same for me anthonydsp though mine was August 2013. Thanks for the information, appreciate it. |
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Post by bandwagon on Oct 26, 2023 20:57:35 GMT 7
IP/UP is serious business bandwagon and all is not as straightforward as we'd all like. Centrelink need to be presented with Centrelink speak by your medical professionals. The more reports the merrier and if you've ended up on DSP through a legal process i.e. compensation claim etc., so much the better. Researching the forum, I have to concur with itsmylife08 anthonydsp & Denis-NFA , however there is actually no such thing as a legislated 0 - 2 hr per week rating per se that myself nor another admin can source. To obtain that classification you need to prove you have 'No Future Work Capacity' through your specialist medical reports. With luck a JCA assessor will then provide you with the classification. Below are a selection of posts from the closed boards....."Baseline: You have an impairment rating of 20 points or more in a single table. 1. The condition is fully diagnosed, treated and stabilised. 2. The condition will last more than 5 years and remain unchanged. 3. Future work capacity is less than 2 hours per week. If you meet all of the above criteria, and you have documentation by qualified medical professionals that states this clearly, you should be granted Indefinite Portability. Don't assume that Job Capacity Assessors will approve your application unless the functional impact of your condition is fully elaborated. You may think "but I had a lobotomy. Surely the JCA will understand the implications of that". No, they will not. The functional effects the lobotomy on your life must be clearly elucidated in documentation, and not merely by your own testimony, but by those people with medical standing to do so." "Lodged my paperwork today for indefinite portability. I was granted DSP on 09/02/2021 and the following day requested paperwork for indefinite portability. I received 20 points under table 5 for mental health. My treating psychiatrist completed the Centrelink doctor reports ticking the condition will persist for more than 5 years and remain unchanged for the next 5 years. Also he completed his own report to attach stating I have a permanent continuing inability to work and and no future work capacity and he recommends I be granted indefinite portability. I also attached to independent medical examiners report from my workers compensation both stating no future work capacity on the open labour market. So let’s hope 3 psychiatrist stating permanent incapacity helps me, I couldn’t possibly supply anymore supporting evidence." "Yes I’m hoping the medico-legal reports do hold some weight with the JCA seeing as these guys are paid to get us back to work. I have supplied two IME from seperate consultant psychiatrist both stating permanent work incapacity. And my own doctors report dated 26/02/2021 stating the same. But unfortunately the JCA can go against medical advice from the treating expert, but I do have a lot of comprehensive evidence submitted." "This is the exact quote stated in of of my medico-legal in regards to the question my capacity in the open labour market “ The patient has no current work capacity, he is totally unfit for any employment given the history provided at interview. Patient presents with a state of seemingly permanent work incapacity as a consequence of his chronic PTSD." " The Job Capacity Assessment is a medico-legal process in essence. You'll have excellent grounds for appeal if your IP application is rejected because there will now be two assessors with opinions at odds. All the JCA can do when going against your specialists is that the JCA is an expert in assessment. You have one of those also."
Thanks Bear. Yes it looks difficult to navigate. What are the closed forums is that a paid membership or something? My circumstances are that my JCA says no capacity to work more than 7 hours per week. But I have 20 points in 2 separate tables so a total of 40 points, I'm not sure if that will make any difference. It's not something I want to rush into but I have more friends overseas than I do here in Oz, in fact I have no friends and live a solitary life but occasionally chat every 2 weeks to friends in Asia. |
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Post by bear on Oct 27, 2023 6:18:27 GMT 7
There are no paid memberships here. Access to the closed boards might be granted to members when we have had time to assess their actual need for serious help vs curiosity vs other member's personal information. Cheers 🐻 If the above descriptor fits you, then you have a 'severe impairment' which is one of the main qualifications for IP/UP.
If the assessments were assessed purely on the legislative descriptors without human nature being involved all anyone with a severe impairment rating should need, would be the "disability will last for at least/more than five years" written into their application's medical reports.IMO the reason for the "no capacity to work more than 7 hours per week" has been given to keep you in the severe impairment rating and the JCA being required to provide a rating. An 8 hr. rating would have seen you in the CITW rating, therefore requiring a mandatory participation in a POS (program of support). Maybe it's mandatory for the JCA to put in any rating, as I don't believe anything under 8 hrs. is stated anywhere in the legislation. Your medical reports attached to an application will need to strenuously reflect the fact that you have NFWC and that your condition will last at least five years. If you can get support from your medical team and more than one report indicating the previous, then you're in with a better than even chance. If it were to be denied first time you have the right of several appeals. That is where; if the JCA has over ridden a doctor's report you would argue against it with this info:- dspoverseas.proboards.com/thread/6447/advise-on-assessment-memberI genuinely don't think you have to worry about losing your DSP given your circumstances and having a lawyer present, familiar with the legislation at your JCA or on appeal as a support person, could see a smoother way to approval.  |
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Post by anthonydsp on Oct 27, 2023 7:57:21 GMT 7
Personally I think if you have 40 points in 2 tables as you said 20 points per table then I think you would have a great chance of getting IP but its your decision if you want to apply but I would be getting your jca assessment to see how many points per table you were given before applying and if its 20 points in one table then I'd say go for it and enjoy your life overseas with no hassle from centrelink
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Post by bandwagon on Oct 27, 2023 17:45:37 GMT 7
There are no paid memberships here. Access to the closed boards might be granted to members when we have had time to assess their actual need for serious help vs curiosity vs other member's personal information. Cheers 🐻 If the above descriptor fits you, then you have a 'severe impairment' which is one of the main qualifications for IP/UP.
If the assessments were assessed purely on the legislative descriptors without human nature being involved all anyone with a severe impairment rating should need, would be the "disability will last for at least/more than five years" written into their application's medical reports.IMO the reason for the "no capacity to work more than 7 hours per week" has been given to keep you in the severe impairment rating and the JCA being required to provide a rating. An 8 hr. rating would have seen you in the CITW rating, therefore requiring a mandatory participation in a POS (program of support). Maybe it's mandatory for the JCA to put in any rating, as I don't believe anything under 8 hrs. is stated anywhere in the legislation. Your medical reports attached to an application will need to strenuously reflect the fact that you have NFWC and that your condition will last at least five years. If you can get support from your medical team and more than one report indicating the previous, then you're in with a better than even chance. If it were to be denied first time you have the right of several appeals. That is where; if the JCA has over ridden a doctor's report you would argue against it with this info:- dspoverseas.proboards.com/thread/6447/advise-on-assessment-memberI genuinely don't think you have to worry about losing your DSP given your circumstances and having a lawyer present, familiar with the legislation at your JCA or on appeal as a support person, could see a smoother way to approval. Thanks Bear, my JCA which I obtained a copy of (thanks to this forum) says "Rationale: A reduction in baseline work capacity of 0-7 hours per week is recommended as the client is experiencing severe limitations impacting on endurance and their ability to engage and perform in demanding work tasks due to their medical condition" and "The client has been identified as having a very limited work capacity of 0-7 hours per week based on the identified impacts of their permanent medical conditions. Assistance from appropriate employment programs is not expected to lead to an increase in the client's ability to undertake and maintain open employment within the next 24 months". So it mentions 2 years but but not the 5 years you spoke of. Tbh I'm not sure at this stage of I could cope properly overseas at this stage but for cost of living reasons SEA seems like a very viable option. I think I will reassess myself in 2024 before taking any actions. I am also a bit scared to deal with a potential knock back and subsequent potential putting me under a microscope, even though my evidence is very real and also strong as I was put through multiple panels of psychiatrists I find it daunting to have to potentially go through that again. Another reason is I no longer have a GP and moved to a place where when you walk inside they put on their doctors smile but can't get you out of the door quick enough. It's a shame that the old school family doctors that know you and your condition and take time to ask questions are literally a dying race, they're being replaced by turnstile consultations. 5 minutes into a consultation these days they start hitting you with the "is there anything else?" Hint hint....gtfo out your 6 minutes is up type doctoring. I also don't get why portability isn't considered a bonus for the taxpayer, less claims of rental assistance, carers assistance, no bulk billing amd less strain on the public health system in general. Anyway thanks for the replies mate I will come back later next year after giving it all further considerations. Thanks for the advice I appreciate it. 🙏 |
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