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Post by bear on May 20, 2020 6:27:45 GMT 7
Under 35's debacle.......a few years ago the Government was seriously paranoid that everyone on DSP were faking it. They decided they would spend millions & millions reviewing everyone starting with under 35's, over a three year period. It turned into an utter debacle as only about 0.04% (guessing here) were taken of DSP. The program wasn't completed and was abandoned. From memory FOI currently has an extended wait time of an extra month.....so 2 month instead of 1; as staff have been sent to other areas to cope with the influx of Jobseekers. If you can stand the suspense don't email them; I've no doubt they'll just methodically be working through requests as received. Cheers bear
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Post by firefly on May 20, 2020 12:16:51 GMT 7
Under 35's debacle.......a few years ago the Government was seriously paranoid that everyone on DSP were faking it. They decided they would spend millions & millions reviewing everyone starting with under 35's, over a three year period. It turned into an utter debacle as only about 0.04% (guessing here) were taken of DSP. The program wasn't completed and was abandoned. From memory FOI currently has an extended wait time of an extra month.....so 2 month instead of 1; as staff have been sent to other areas to cope with the influx of Jobseekers. If you can stand the suspense don't email them; I've no doubt they'll just methodically be working through requests as received. Cheers bear Just received a call to ask me to be a little more specific on the files/information I wanted... she sent me an email immediately to follow up and say request sent and that ALL info will be express posted and I should receive by June 15! 😯😆 This has to be some sort of record! Haha
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Post by firefly on May 21, 2020 8:56:56 GMT 7
They are not our friends firefly ....... The quicker they pass the ball back to us, leave us in the lurch; the more likely they are to have met their KPI (key performance indicator) for the day. They know full well we have appeals options. There is no consideration in how the decision may have impacted the CRN. I say CRN (customer reference number). because that's how they see us; as a number. Once upon a time, we were called clients and treated as such by ARO's, who have the authority to overturn decisions; treated with at least a modicum of dignity and respect. I'd like to know the last time an ARO performed their duty to the best of their ability and for the benefit of their client. Bear NO they are most certainly not our friends!! I feel so bad for sonicsleep and now, even more fearful for my own circumstance. Considering I'm in much the same boat a sonicsleep... I'm starting to think i should try a different approach! 🤔 Considering I'm not looking to leave the country till March 2021... Do u think i could maybe benefit by starting to build my case NOW? Having letters regarding NFWC from psychologist, Psychiatrist AND GP... all lodged with centrelink to update file over the next month or so... so by the time i go to apply for UP, these would have already been on file for 6months+? Also, i think it was tasjo who pointed out that considering I DO have a "recent" history of part time work... that would definitely be something for them to use to deny me. But the Psychiatrist & Psychologist have on record that substances were used in order to complete any shifts/work... Off topic a bit sorry... but proof of that could potentially stop them from using "recent work" as a reason for denying me UP because my work capacity was fuelled by substance abuse. My main question is.. Since sonicsleep had no luck with doing it all at once (updating file, being reassessed and asking for UP)... And now the poor bugga has lost the pension entirely!! Would it be worth a shot breaking it down and building the case up... letter by letter, month by month, from doctor to doctor adding all backing documents to my file over the next 6months BEFORE even asking for UP? Thoughts?
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Post by bear on May 21, 2020 11:01:47 GMT 7
Wait for your file.....do you know your points situation, or are you guessing?
If you are on DSP it's best to have an ongoing relationship with your medical team so as new information is always building. Rushing off to update your medical information all at once when you've been called in for a review,or chosen to ask for one; if you haven't been seeing your team regularly, is not a great idea. People on DSP, are supposedly on DSP because they have medical issues.
When I was revised by a CMO(commonwealth medical officer) I didn't have a great medical history. To their credit, they chased up my scattered files.....I wasn't capable of doing it. Long story.....I was informed I would be passing my review and a GP friend of my CMO agreed to take me on as a patient. All that was asked of me by the CMO was follow the GP's instructions and keep my appointments.
Just make sure to get any updated medical evidence stamped when you submit it over the counter; and keep copies for yourself. Cheers bear
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Post by tasjo on May 21, 2020 15:52:14 GMT 7
In my opinion there is no point in providing information to Centrelink before you need to.
But, as bear said, there is a lot of value in having a clear record of ongoing treatment so that when (or if) you apply for UP (and trigger a review by doing so) you have clearly been receiving treatment over time. Centrelink have no need to know what that treatment is prior to your application and providing it outside of a claim gives it no context.
Applying for UP is a risk, how much depends on the individual... until you have your file you cant make an informed choice on whether it is the right choice for you. We cannot make that choice for you...
In basic terms, applying for UP is initiating a review of your DSP, and it can go either way. Like any centrelink decision it is able to be reviewed and appealed.
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Post by firefly on Jul 9, 2020 3:30:50 GMT 7
Wait for your file.....do you know your points situation, or are you guessing? If you are on DSP it's best to have an ongoing relationship with your medical team so as new information is always building. Rushing off to update your medical information all at once when you've been called in for a review,or chosen to ask for one; if you haven't been seeing your team regularly, is not a great idea. People on DSP, are supposedly on DSP because they have medical issues. When I was revised by a CMO(commonwealth medical officer) I didn't have a great medical history. To their credit, they chased up my scattered files.....I wasn't capable of doing it. Long story.....I was informed I would be passing my review and a GP friend of my CMO agreed to take me on as a patient. All that was asked of me by the CMO was follow the GP's instructions and keep my appointments. Just make sure to get any updated medical evidence stamped when you submit it over the counter; and keep copies for yourself. Cheers bear
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Post by firefly on Jul 9, 2020 4:13:12 GMT 7
Under 35's debacle.......a few years ago the Government was seriously paranoid that everyone on DSP were faking it. They decided they would spend millions & millions reviewing everyone starting with under 35's, over a three year period. It turned into an utter debacle as only about 0.04% (guessing here) were taken of DSP. The program wasn't completed and was abandoned. From memory FOI currently has an extended wait time of an extra month.....so 2 month instead of 1; as staff have been sent to other areas to cope with the influx of Jobseekers. If you can stand the suspense don't email them; I've no doubt they'll just methodically be working through requests as received. Cheers bear Hi Bear, I have received my file and I can't find my points table on which I was granted by in the first place. I have since been admitted, treated and now discharged from hospital with my condition having been exacerbated 30day total stay. They have left me with a small amount of documents. One stating that I now have a live-in carer with no end date on her stay. This ups my level of care required as I have always lived independently. Another to an online learning institution that I was going to study with to exempt me from any and all learning until revision in the new year. I have a detailed letter stating that even though I am now discharged, my mental illness is severe. Not moderate... SEVERE. It says while the course of the illness is difficult to predict it is associated with high levels of social, occupational and physical disability. It also states that the impaired functioning is exhibited across social, interpersonal, developmental, educational, physical health and occupational domains. It states- it is expected on the basis of her prognosis and ongoing symptoms are likely to impede her ability to return to full time work And finishes with "i would endorse her remaining a recipient of the DSP, should it be reviewed". I have two more letters to receive. One documenting my social isolation- 28 months and counting... And the other letter to state that the part time work i have done over the last 4 years (working part time, sometimes 6-12 hours a week - approximately 13 months of time employed in the 4 years at that amount of hours per week) Were all while under the influence of some sort of substance abuse. With the high levels of prescribed drugs that i am still on after discharge, I have many current, active side affects. I am unable to see (blurred vision) Not allowed to drive because of this. I am unable to speak without a stammer, stutter and slur... it's quite embarrassing when you're trying to have an adult conversation. And also, there is a massive delay in my ability to process what someone has said and then find a response and try to put it together in stuttered words to form a reply. These side effects are not expected to be permanent... but also, probably not going to be looked at for a review to reduce the amounts of the drugs until after the new year... It seems such a long time to be impaired with those side effects considering I'm usually a fast talking, quick response type of girl. Anyway, I know that NONE of these documents say NFWC5+ But I feel with my prior 4 year work history written of as drug fuelled, the Psychs endorsement of me remaining on the DSP, my upgrade of level of care to a live in carer, my social isolation documented, my inability to particate in learning for at least 6 months and with my current predominantly obvious side effects if seen in person... I was wondering if now would be a good time to apply for UP? I feel like the documents are "quite" supportive... albeit not the NFWC5+ And any interviewer can clearly see the side affects. PLUS.. i feel the worst they can do is deny UP but the trigger of review of the DSP could be saved by the latest document with Psychiatrist endorsement and the prior work history explained by psychologist. I was just wondering if u had any thoughts on this?? Thanks in advance Firefly
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Post by tasjo on Jul 9, 2020 5:01:28 GMT 7
When was your dsp granted firefly? There was a different way of reporting DSP qualification prior to the 'new' impairment tables (2012)... also, with mental health impairment some info may not be released to you due to its impact on you and your wellbeing.
My opinion, for what its worth, on the next steps... Sit down with the relevant current impairment tables and prepare a really good UP application, with the expectation that it will trigger a DSP review. Address it as you would a new claim against any tables that apply now.
Make sure that you cover the 'fully diagnosed treated and stabilised' definitions for any impairments, and that you have appropropriate specialists for each part of your application.
Use the information in your existing file but present new information that confirms you are FDTS according to Centrelinks definition, not what your specialists think it means.
If you think you have sufficient points to protect your DSP in the event you dont get UP then the risk is minimal for submitting it...
But, like before, its a risk only you can decide about
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Post by firefly on Jul 9, 2020 5:31:42 GMT 7
When was your dsp granted firefly? There was a different way of reporting DSP qualification prior to the 'new' impairment tables (2012)... also, with mental health impairment some info may not be released to you due to its impact on you and your wellbeing. My opinion, for what its worth, on the next steps... Sit down with the relevant current impairment tables and prepare a really good UP application, with the expectation that it will trigger a DSP review. Address it as you would a new claim against any tables that apply now. Make sure that you cover the 'fully diagnosed treated and stabilised' definitions for any impairments, and that you have appropropriate specialists for each part of your application. Use the information in your existing file but present new information that confirms you are FDTS according to Centrelinks definition, not what your specialists think it means. If you think you have sufficient points to protect your DSP in the event you dont get UP then the risk is minimal for submitting it... But, like before, its a risk only you can decide about Granted DSP in April 2013. Although cannot find it in my FOI file, maybe they blocked it out for the reason u stated. I think with the documents I have now, I feel quite confident that I will meet at least 4 out 6 on the "severe" table now. Also, i feel my DSP will be protected by the endorsement letter. Do u think the other documents may help? I can probably try to get my hands on one more document that would back up the endorsement of remaining a DSP recipient and also state FDTS. How do i go about getting a hard copy of the UP application? Just walk in and ask? Once i have it, I can take my time (with this drug induced delay... it may take me a while) I can ensure I have all supporting documents ready and meet all criteria to the best of my ability before submitting the claim. Do you think it's still worth a shot even though i don't have the NFWC5+ letter? I don't think i have anything to lose by trying.
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Post by firefly on Jul 9, 2020 6:21:48 GMT 7
Just went into centrelink and asked for a hard copy of a UP application... they said they don't exist... and UP is only for people stranded overseas due to Covid19..........
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Post by bunyip on Jul 9, 2020 6:26:02 GMT 7
Under 35's debacle.......a few years ago the Government was seriously paranoid that everyone on DSP were faking it. They decided they would spend millions & millions reviewing everyone starting with under 35's, over a three year period. It turned into an utter debacle as only about 0.04% (guessing here) were taken of DSP. The program wasn't completed and was abandoned. From memory FOI currently has an extended wait time of an extra month.....so 2 month instead of 1; as staff have been sent to other areas to cope with the influx of Jobseekers. If you can stand the suspense don't email them; I've no doubt they'll just methodically be working through requests as received. Cheers bear "Under 35's debacle.......a few years ago the Government was seriously paranoid that everyone on DSP were faking it" Yes l think some Brain dead , born to rule, liberal minister was listening to talk back radio trash talk one morning and probably the usual call from some moron saying they think their neighbour who they know nothing about is rorting the DSP because they see them mowing the lawn , then all the other morons ring up saying how they also think their neighbours who they know nothing about are rorting the DSP, but l bet if centrelink were to actually investigate all these allegations 99% would turn out to be false. but the radio host , alan jones will express his outrage how his hard working, loyal taxpaying listeners are being ripped off by their lazy rorting neighbours on the DSP and this huge rort needs to end , then the liberal minister listening to ALan Jones would think, gee everyone on the DSP is a rorter l must do something about this or l will lose votes . SO they waste hundreds of millions reviewing half the people on the DSP and suprise suprise 99.99% turn out to be genuine, The liberal minister then says ' gees Alan Jones talkback radio show got it wrong they arent all bludgers '
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Post by firefly on Jul 9, 2020 7:02:01 GMT 7
When was your dsp granted firefly? There was a different way of reporting DSP qualification prior to the 'new' impairment tables (2012)... also, with mental health impairment some info may not be released to you due to its impact on you and your wellbeing. My opinion, for what its worth, on the next steps... Sit down with the relevant current impairment tables and prepare a really good UP application, with the expectation that it will trigger a DSP review. Address it as you would a new claim against any tables that apply now. Make sure that you cover the 'fully diagnosed treated and stabilised' definitions for any impairments, and that you have appropropriate specialists for each part of your application. Use the information in your existing file but present new information that confirms you are FDTS according to Centrelinks definition, not what your specialists think it means. If you think you have sufficient points to protect your DSP in the event you dont get UP then the risk is minimal for submitting it... But, like before, its a risk only you can decide about Granted DSP in April 2013. Although cannot find it in my FOI file, maybe they blocked it out for the reason u stated. I think with the documents I have now, I feel quite confident that I will meet at least 4 out 6 on the "severe" table now. Also, i feel my DSP will be protected by the endorsement letter. Do u think the other documents may help? I can probably try to get my hands on one more document that would back up the endorsement of remaining a DSP recipient and also state FDTS. How do i go about getting a hard copy of the UP application? Just walk in and ask? Once i have it, I can take my time (with this drug induced delay... it may take me a while) I can ensure I have all supporting documents ready and meet all criteria to the best of my ability before submitting the claim. Do you think it's still worth a shot even though i don't have the NFWC5+ letter? I don't think i have anything to lose by trying. 7.1.2.10 General rules of portability 7.1.2.10 General rules of portability Just opened that ^^^^^^ up and it has changed since I last looked!! Now it's called "indefinite portability" and must include "MANIFEST"... Which criteria i do not meet. It didn't say that last time i checker and it was still called the UP... I'm confused? What has changed in the last month or so?
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Post by bear on Jul 9, 2020 7:41:10 GMT 7
Re the above quote: I don't see what the point would be if you haven't addressed all of the criteria; of which the above, the whole application actually hinges on. firefly to get a UP application you have to call International Services 131673 and ask for it. Be prepared to be harangued over the possibility of losing DSP. They will send it out to you. There is no time frame to have it returned in. Indeed no need to return it at all if you make the choice not to go ahead. Nothing has changed!! I can assure you the conditions for UP/IP have not changed. Unlimited Portability and Indefinite Portability both; refer to exactly the same thing. Please post the link to verify your claim re "MANIFEST" guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/7/1/2/10Having never seen a post 2012 file, I trust tasjo has eased your mind re points etc. Cheers bear
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Post by firefly on Jul 9, 2020 8:01:02 GMT 7
Re the above quote: I don't see what the point would be if you haven't addressed all of the criteria; of which the above, the whole application actually hinges on. firefly to get a UP application you have to call International Services 131673 and ask for it. Be prepared to be harangued over the possibility of losing DSP. They will send it out to you. There is no time frame to have it returned in. Indeed no need to return it at all if you make the choice not to go ahead. Nothing has changed!! I can assure you the conditions for UP/IP have not changed. Unlimited Portability and Indefinite Portability both; refer to exactly the same thing. Please post the link to verify your claim re "MANIFEST" guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/7/1/2/10Having never seen a post 2012 file, I trust tasjo has eased your mind re points etc. Cheers bear Hey Bear, Thanks for getting back to me. I do trust tasjos advice with the impairments points table and believe I've actually gone up from Moderate to SEVERE since dsp granted back in 2013 so have full faith that i will more than qualify to keep my DSP. I have all the supporting documents already listed but last I checked i do not fall under manifest... although i can't find it again now to check once more... Anyway, i cannot get anyone to sign me off for 5 years. I've tried everything... even summarising with evidence given to the professionals that the last 12 years have been pretty consistent as far as illness goes... and if anything- having now moved from moderate to severe... the progression of the decline in capacity and capability... however they keep saying that past performance is not an indicator of future capability and are flat out refusing to write me off for that amount of time. They remain vague in their time frames of my stability and capabilities etc. Saying my illness is too difficult to predict. You're right, the NFWC5+ is the MAIN thing that I need to apply... and the only thing they won't provide. I will have to give up on my dream. You guys have been a huge help... but the criteria is the criteria! Can't change it, can't meet it.. gotta accept it. Thanks again
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Post by bear on Jul 9, 2020 8:17:25 GMT 7
Re the above quote: I don't see what the point would be if you haven't addressed all of the criteria; of which the above, the whole application actually hinges on. firefly to get a UP application you have to call International Services 131673 and ask for it. Be prepared to be harangued over the possibility of losing DSP. They will send it out to you. There is no time frame to have it returned in. Indeed no need to return it at all if you make the choice not to go ahead. Nothing has changed!! I can assure you the conditions for UP/IP have not changed. Unlimited Portability and Indefinite Portability both; refer to exactly the same thing. Please post the link to verify your claim re "MANIFEST" guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/7/1/2/10Having never seen a post 2012 file, I trust tasjo has eased your mind re points etc. Cheers bear Hey Bear, Thanks for getting back to me. I do trust tasjos advice with the impairments points table and believe I've actually gone up from Moderate to SEVERE since dsp granted back in 2013 so have full faith that i will more than qualify to keep my DSP. I have all the supporting documents already listed but last I checked i do not fall under manifest... although i can't find it again now to check once more... Anyway, i cannot get anyone to sign me off for 5 years. I've tried everything... even summarising with evidence given to the professionals that the last 12 years have been pretty consistent as far as illness goes... and if anything- having now moved from moderate to severe... the progression of the decline in capacity and capability... however they keep saying that past performance is not an indicator of future capability and are flat out refusing to write me off for that amount of time. They remain vague in their time frames of my stability and capabilities etc. Saying my illness is too difficult to predict. You're right, the NFWC5+ is the MAIN thing that I need to apply... and the only thing they won't provide. I will have to give up on my dream. You guys have been a huge help... but the criteria is the criteria! Can't change it, can't meet it.. gotta accept it. Thanks again Not necessarily........since your condition has deterioratied substantially recently I think proving FDTS could have also been a stumbling block at the current time. Because mental illness fluctuates, proving it's stabilized can be difficult. That takes time and health records to prove it's stabilized; within a certain range. The longer it's in the range the easier it will be for your doctor's to say it's definitely going to last for more than five years. It will also give credence to hours you can work to meet criteria. Something to consider for the future...........all the best; cheers bear
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