|
Post by Banjo on Apr 22, 2011 4:24:26 GMT 7
We need some input from people with experience in the SSAT appeal system. What is the general attitude of the tribunal? Does it run on a questions and answers system or does the appellate say his piece and then get cross examined? I'm extremely dubious about the claim of independence from Centrelink as well.
|
|
|
Post by Banker on Apr 22, 2011 7:09:10 GMT 7
|
|
|
Post by spaceyone on Apr 22, 2011 20:52:19 GMT 7
This is another interesting post I came across. Seems magistrates don't really like being told what to do by Centrelink. I think the only hope we would have against them is in a real court. The SSAT would be staffed by 'promoted' Centrelink staff, so the 'protect our buddies' system kicks in. bobus vinicius says on 2011-03-14 00:16:02 about centrelink Just found this site so I am not sure whether it has already been commented on or was even noticed. Back in 2001 about half way through the year The Social Security act of 1991 was changed to the Social Security (administration) 2000 act. When this happened they then enforced this act from the year 2000 and then charged and sentence thousands of people during 2000-2001 for centrelink over payments that under the 1991 act (which was still the current act) was allowable until they back dated the 2000 act after the fact. I know this to be true as I was in court for almost 2 years fighting it on principle while risking a jail term. During the first case (of which the only evidence I was allowed to use was a 28pg transcript recorded during an interview with centrelink officers, all other evidence showing discrepancies with centrelink was refused) the public prosecutor had some serious arguments with the magistrates that were involved in making a judgment towards the cases as the prosecutor kept telling the judges they had to charge me so that the flood gates wouldn't open leaving the federal government open to litigation with counter charges from either common law or civil law (I believe that is already suspect to have this argument if everything is legit). The time period that the prosecution was trying to get me for was between 1997 - 2001. All charges before 2000 were quashed outright much to the chagrin of the prosecutor (another serious argument between prosecutor and magistrate). When the prosecutor stated that this was unacceptable and would appeal the magistrate immediately put me on a 3yr good behavior bond causing double jeopardy so that I could not be sentenced again only charged. The 2nd case (by appeal of public prosecutor) went for about 14 mths due the case being continually deferred (I think this happened because the magistrate was not happy with the prosecutions reasons for the appeal) in the end the magistrate made a statement before passing down the charge against me. The statement is as follows: I do not want to charge this man as I don't believe he has done anything wrong. Unfortunately I don't have a choice because the law is NOT about what is right or wrong, it is NOT about morals or ethics, it is NOT about justice. The LAW is about the LAW and it says I have to charge him so I have to charge him. Outside the courtroom after the case even the prosecutor came to me and apologized. Both magistrates were disgusted with what the DPP and centrelink did. This seems like a very sad thing when the legal system can be usurped for political and economic expedience with absolutely no regard to the constituents of this country but to cover the incompetence, negligence and I believe corruption of the very people whom are supposed to represent us the people and the country under the guise of doing all of us a favour. This story dose have more to it but it just gets to depressing. I just hope that what I have shared may help someone somewhere so that they don't have to experience the same thing. If you read this and wish to contact me or find out more my email is bobusvinicius@gmail.com www.thecheers.org/Breaking-News/article_2208_Corruption-Dishonesty-Runs-Rife-in-Australian-Government.html
|
|
|
Post by spaceyone on Apr 22, 2011 21:07:57 GMT 7
I didn't attend my SSAT appeal in person, but did it over the phone. I was sent a booklet before hand, containing my DSP application, and a set of Centrelink records for the period before and during the claim. The information in the booklet was supposed to be all that was discussed, and each member of the Tribunal had the same booklet/information.
I contacted them before the hearing to ask if I could add new medical evidence, and was allowed to do so.
The Tribunal leader and the GP asked lots of questions, about my health, and ability to work. The Social Security Law expert kept quiet. I was asked questions all the way through, and given the chance to add anything else at the beginning and again at the end. The Tribunal leader directed proceedings. I think they allocate about an hour for each hearing.
The finding that they wrote and issued afterwards was a play on words, incorrect assumptions, twisting of facts, and then they deliberately sent it to my old address. I think that was to make me miss the time period in which I had to lodge the next appeal.
I only ever read it once, as the one that sat in the mail box of my previous address got wet and ruined, and I was unable to download a copy of the online version. I always meant to write back to them letting them know what I thought of their 'hearing'.
Once they have found against you and you lodge the next appeal, their finding is sent to the AAT for you to argue against.
Obviously they will find in favour of the new social security laws, as they are bound and limited by them. They will claim to have no power to change or vary the law.
|
|
|
Post by Banjo on Apr 23, 2011 4:11:25 GMT 7
Thanks spacey.
|
|
|
Post by spaceyone on Apr 23, 2011 17:56:12 GMT 7
Come on members. Someone else fill us in on their experiences. I thought mine were unique for threatening to sue the disability employment agency, but maybe not.
Has anyone had a positive and uplifting experience in either of the SSAT or AAT arenas?
Happy Easter!
|
|
|
Post by skills32 on Apr 24, 2012 22:38:37 GMT 7
Spaceyone. The time limit for an appeal is there to safeguard C/l from having a large back payment. I.e I let 6 months pass by [you earn by mistakes] between the SSAT hearing and lodging a further appeal to AAP. I won at the AAT but could not claim back pay as the appeal lodgement time had expired. You can in fact still appeal0- even now but be warned the first person to contact you close to the hearing will be a c/l solicitor and he will not identify himself as such. That can be a good thing because thinking he was an AAP clerk I told him thet the c/l dscision was a load of crap and why. He said we can work this out and he did without going to a hearing.
|
|
|
Post by spaceyone on Apr 25, 2012 6:25:38 GMT 7
Spaceyone. The time limit for an appeal is there to safeguard C/l from having a large back payment. I.e I let 6 months pass by [you earn by mistakes] between the SSAT hearing and lodging a further appeal to AAP. I won at the AAT but could not claim back pay as the appeal lodgement time had expired. You can in fact still appeal0- even now but be warned the first person to contact you close to the hearing will be a c/l solicitor and he will not identify himself as such. That can be a good thing because thinking he was an AAP clerk I told him thet the c/l dscision was a load of crap and why. He said we can work this out and he did without going to a hearing. Hi Skills. Thanks, I was aware of this time limit. It is a good point to make though. Despite the fact that you had been right all along, because you took to long to take them to the final battle, you miss out on your entitlements for that period. Funny that you say the man didn't really identify himself, and then made an arrangement with you to settle 'out of court' (tribunal). I think C/L cave in before the AAT, as their cases are published on the internet. C/L do not want the cases reported where they have acted like crap, and so settle beforehand. The SSAT is the last line of Centelink liars and bullies you encounter in the appeals process. The AAT is the beginning of them trying to cover up all they have done previously, often resulting in granting of claim, because the next step would be the federal courts.
|
|
|
Post by Banjo on Apr 25, 2012 7:17:34 GMT 7
The AAT is accepted as the first truly independent (from Centrelink) appeal you will get, the problem being of course that it could take over a year to get there.
|
|
|
Post by rowdy on Apr 25, 2012 9:00:46 GMT 7
The AAT is accepted as the first truly independent (from Centrelink) appeal you will get, the problem being of course that it could take over a year to get there. I agree Banjo. Especially since the SSAT dont publish their decisions.
|
|
|
Post by anotherdsp on Apr 25, 2012 9:09:17 GMT 7
to dsp overseas
,i think in 1996,i went a SSAT tribunal
, just a brief history of it, i was on newstart at the time an living in a block of flats,i moved into the unit next door to my old unit and all the mailboxes where outside my front door,i put in a change of address from unit 4 to unit 5.
they said they sent me a letter for an interveiw which i did not receive an was promptly cutoff,
so i ended up at the SSAT,found them quite pleasent and helpful,had the decision reversed an awarded backpay which i was told would be promptly paid
,but they didnt anyway after having to lose my new unit
,so i ended up ringing the ombudsman he said he would look into for me
.30 minutes later i received a phonecall from the head of th STH WEST DIVISION of sydney C/L asking me who the F"$5 DO i think i am ringing the ombudsman,so i thanked for his phonecall and i will get back to him on this!!
so i rang the ombudsman and told him what happened he was shocked an said ok mate go down the bank in one hour and your money will be there and apoligized to me that i was treated that way!!
TEN minutes later the C/L manager rang me and could not apoligze enough an asked me if i would like to press charges,
i laughed said he must be kidding after his attitude earlier on! I TOLD A LITTLE BIT OF RESPECT goes a long way on this planet and hang up!
THIS DOES NOT really apply to this day an age but it was my experience with the SSAT.
|
|
|
Post by spaceyone on Apr 25, 2012 9:49:56 GMT 7
THIS DOES NOT really apply to this day an age but it was my experience with the SSAT. Actually, I think it does still happen this way. When Banjo won at the SSAT and was awarded backpay, Centrelink decided they might not want to give it to him, and tried to make him wait another minimum of 28 days for it. My allocated 'case worker' from the SSAT phoned me one day about my appeal. I asked if I really had to travel all the way to Brisbane for it. She asked if I was too scared to appear before their panel of three doctors. I replied that I was not. However, it turned out there was only one doctor on the panel, and she seems to have refused to have allowed them to put her name anywhere on the decision to deny my appeal. I had proven to her that I was very sick, just the social security law experts didn't seem to be able to grasp that. I sent more medical evidence to the panel, prior to my appeal hearing, and suddenly they didn't want me to come up there, and started trying to shove a teleconference down my throat. On another occassion, I phoned my SSAT case worker to ask about a very suspect item mentioned in the booklet they had provided to me. She hung up the phone on me. She declined to take my return phone calls, and had me transferred to the Tribunal leader's secretary. She was confused also by the entry. It appeared that something very suspect had been done to my DSP application, by Centrelink staff. She said she would have to get the Tribunal leader to phone me back about it. The Tribunal leader then responded with an easily provable lie, and that was that. I was expected to believe it and drop the matter. It is that same matter which made them cancel my hearing with the AAT. To keep that action from being made public, the AAT pre-hearing decided that C/L should be allowed to breach my rights of FOI, and keep that information hidden, and my case against them dismissed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 9:28:46 GMT 7
I don't know if I just lucked out and got a couple of jerks but my SSAT experience was horrible. I haven't received a decision yet so I don't want to say too much.
There were 2 members in the room, one a medical expert and the other was a lawyer. I have heard that it is an informal affair but it felt more like an interrogation to me because I got the overall impression that they thought I was full of shit and they deliberately trivialised my conditions and supporting evidence.
I find it amazing that the tribunal is considered impartial.
|
|
|
Post by Banjo on Jul 12, 2012 9:51:47 GMT 7
It's under Jenny Macklin's FaHCSIA umbrella so they are answerable to the same people. Wait and see what the result is, then look at your options then. Did you contact Welfare Rights at all?
|
|
|
Post by chrisnouy on Jul 12, 2012 13:05:46 GMT 7
Mt ssat appeal is being heard right now 'on the papers' I WAS TOLD THEY MIGHT PHONE ME IN THAIALND but i dont think they will i submitted my appeal in writing (3700 words of it ) I submitted in writing because then they cannot twist anything that is said later . I made it deliberately lenghty so they will realise i am serious and will 'go all the way' When they sent me the file notes there were 60 odd pages some printed upside down, some in reverse order many out of date order This was deliberately done to make it difficult for me It took a day or so just to put their stuff in order and three 12 hour days sorting through it. There were so many inaccuracies it was mind boggling I am not confident at all as i believe that the independent legal person will be Govt employed Ho HO F****** ho I will keep you posted of outcome
|
|