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Post by Shaheem on Nov 8, 2023 12:03:37 GMT 7
I had to studiously read my file numerous times to glean the info I required, mostly found within the margins, but given that my file was pre 2012 therefore sans JCA I'd hazard a guess they've likely changed the file format so my explanation may be moot. Cheers 🐻 I see. I'll have another read for good measure, and if need be request specifically. How many points do I have, and what's my work capacity. Then just go for the gusto I guess, regardless of what these outdated reports say, I'm gonna go for it. I'll just get up to date evidence from the psychiatrist to support my position and they can do a new JCA
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Post by Shaheem on Nov 10, 2023 13:26:22 GMT 7
I took another look at my file today, my most recent JCA ( nearly ten years ago ) gave me 20 points on the tables, which Is good news, but listed " baseline " work capacity at 7 hours, and with intervention after two years 8-14. But made note that the psychiatrist deemed me at the time unfit to work for at least 2 years 🙄, (I'm still deemed unfit to work) what is the requirement for UP? Someone said 0-5? I can get a letter stating I'm still unfit to work and will be for some time. What would it need to say? And how is this all looking for me? Thanks guys
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Post by bear on Nov 10, 2023 14:52:16 GMT 7
I took another look at my file today, my most recent JCA ( nearly ten years ago ) gave me 20 points on the tables, which Is good news, but listed " baseline " work capacity at 7 hours, and with intervention after two years 8-14. But made note that the psychiatrist deemed me at the time unfit to work for at least 2 years 🙄, (I'm still deemed unfit to work) what is the requirement for UP? Someone said 0-5? I can get a letter stating I'm still unfit to work and will be for some time. What would it need to say? And how is this all looking for me? Thanks guys Hopefully a member who has achieved IP will be able to confirm, but I think your updated medical report needs to convey that you have 'No Future Work Capacity' because of your PTSD and it will be ongoing for at least the next five years. If your BPD and associated maladies aren't already in your medical reports; have it and anything else included in the new one to show that your MH is deteriorating from when you were first granted DSP in order to protect your given points and hopefully bolster them. I also think it's up to the JCAssessor to allocate hours not the psychiatrist /psychologist. Therefore if your professional states NFWC and lasting for at least the next five years then the assessor should be obligated to assign 0 - 2 hrs because of the psyche report. The application forms should have a 'tick' box to allow for the five year rating. Again I think that, you weren't given a Program of Support because of your 0 - 7 hour rating, as an 8 - 14 should trigger one. Having a copy of your JCA to read may be advantageous. It can be obtained by asking for it at any Centrelink counter. Regarding this; here's a thread that may be of interest....... especially the note regarding the member's 0 - 7 hr rating. P1/last post : P2 #2. Cheers 🐻 dspoverseas.proboards.com/thread/7815/question-ip
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Post by Shaheem on Nov 10, 2023 15:55:05 GMT 7
I took another look at my file today, my most recent JCA ( nearly ten years ago ) gave me 20 points on the tables, which Is good news, but listed " baseline " work capacity at 7 hours, and with intervention after two years 8-14. But made note that the psychiatrist deemed me at the time unfit to work for at least 2 years 🙄, (I'm still deemed unfit to work) what is the requirement for UP? Someone said 0-5? I can get a letter stating I'm still unfit to work and will be for some time. What would it need to say? And how is this all looking for me? Thanks guys Hopefully a member who has achieved IP will be able to confirm, but I think your updated medical report needs to convey that you have 'No Future Work Capacity' because of your PTSD and it will be ongoing for at least the next five years. If your BPD and associated maladies aren't already in your medical reports; have it and anything else included in the new one to show that your MH is deteriorating from when you were first granted DSP in order to protect your given points and hopefully bolster them. I also think it's up to the JCAssessor to allocate hours not the psychiatrist /psychologist. Therefore if your professional states NFWC and lasting for at least the next five years then the assessor should be obligated to assign 0 - 2 hrs because of the psyche report. The application forms should have a 'tick' box to allow for the five year rating. Again I think that, you weren't given a Program of Support because of your 0 - 7 hour rating, as an 8 - 14 should trigger one. Having a copy of your JCA to read may be advantageous. It can be obtained by asking for it at any Centrelink counter. Regarding this; here's a thread that may be of interest....... especially the note regarding the member's 0 - 7 hr rating. P1/last post : P2 #2. Cheers 🐻 dspoverseas.proboards.com/thread/7815/question-ip Thankyou kindly for all the invaluable information as usual, I appreciate it. The report makes note of the BPD and Anxiety and what not, it casually mentions in the JCA something along the lines of " psychiatrist notes PTSD ". My initial main diagnosis was "BPD" so the PTSD at the time of the JCA seems to be treated as just a little additional note from the psychiatrist. To be fair it kind of was, and was explored more later and acknowledged to be a major kind of thing. I suppose that helps to have that diagnosis sort of set in stone for an updated report. And symptoms such as severe dissociation/ "dissociative amnesia" can be noted, that's allways a fun experience. Doesn't last long thankfully. Maybe I should also include the old discharge papers from the nut house in my application that described me as "paranoid and delusional" only did a three day bid 😅 I'm generally not regarded as such but that's what they said at the time. I used that one when they denied my DSP when I first applied. Was a nice touch I think, Aswell as a lengthy psyc report from my psychologist at the time. I think I was given a program of support, which basically just consisted of doing 2 years of psychotherapy (did much more and still going) and interact more socially and what not. I was on a waiting list for psychotherapy at the time. I've been accessing my file at the library, my phone won't open the file. I may have a hardcopy in the mailbox by now to study further. I'll make some appointments to get new reports, one from a psychiatrist, and one from my clinical psychologist, they are both at a psycotherapy centre
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Post by bear on Nov 10, 2023 17:27:27 GMT 7
It couldn't hurt...... I never saw any of my paperwork from my three day stint however, whatever was in them was enough for the local CMO to give me 30 points on review who told me to consider myself early retired if I hadn't heard from Centrelink within three months.
That was in Christmas / New Year period 2002 - 03. My only interaction since then was requesting my old aged pension @ 65.5 y.o. + advising travel. Cheers 🐻
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Post by Shaheem on Nov 10, 2023 19:04:03 GMT 7
It couldn't hurt...... I never saw any of my paperwork from my three day stint however, whatever was in them was enough for the local CMO to give me 30 points on review who told me to consider myself early retired if I hadn't heard from Centrelink within three months. That was in Christmas / New Year period 2002 - 03. My only interaction since then was requesting my old aged pension @ 65.5 y.o. + advising travel. Cheers 🐻 Ah, I see. I also can't remember the last time I had to speak with someone from centerlink fortunately, it's not my favorite pasttime, doing just that whilst going wheresoever I please would certainly be nice. What is a CMO? Also. In the likely event that I soon have psyc reports deeming me unfit for work for at least five years, that's what it aught to say right? At least 5 years? Once I have that, and that also bolstering my current 20 points like you said, should I then be good to go ahead and apply for IP?
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Post by bear on Nov 11, 2023 5:53:32 GMT 7
It couldn't hurt...... I never saw any of my paperwork from my three day stint however, whatever was in them was enough for the local CMO to give me 30 points on review who told me to consider myself early retired if I hadn't heard from Centrelink within three months. That was in Christmas / New Year period 2002 - 03. My only interaction since then was requesting my old aged pension @ 65.5 y.o. + advising travel. Cheers 🐻 Ah, I see. I also can't remember the last time I had to speak with someone from centerlink fortunately, it's not my favorite pasttime, doing just that whilst going wheresoever I please would certainly be nice. What is a CMO? Also. In the likely event that I soon have psyc reports deeming me unfit for work for at least five years, that's what it aught to say right? At least 5 years? Once I have that, and that also bolstering my current 20 points like you said, should I then be good to go ahead and apply for IP? CMO / Commonwealth Medical Officer I'm not advocating for the five years being included in the reports...... I think having it ticked off on the application forms is sufficient. It's entirely up to you whether or not to ask for them to include it. Your reports showing that in the opinion of your treating specialists your unlikely to be able to ever work again should also be sufficient. Centrelink Speak to show that is; 'No Further Work Capacity'. To bolster or at least maintain your points, your reports will need to show any new conditions that have been, 'fully diagnosed, treated and stabilised', Centrelink Speak again in order to maintain the veracity of the claim; that your treating professionals have become aware of and have been managing over the time ever since you originally acquired DSP. Then you should be good to go ahead and apply for IP....... Cheers 🐻 P.S. Edit:- Having your treating doctors familiar with the current MH tables, how they are applied and using the descriptors from them, i.e. Centrelink Speak; can also bolster your application. Sadly most of them haven't got the time to do this for their patients that are seeking IP/ UP. www.dss.gov.au/disability-and-carers-benefits-payments/impairment-tables-for-disability-support-pensionguides.dss.gov.au/social-security-guide/3/6/3/50www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2023L00188Information for Treating Professionals:- www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/disability-support-pension-medical-evidence-information-for-health-professionals?context=44231More info for professionals and a direct connection to Table 5 in the legislation. Access by scrolling down........ dsphelp.org.au/for-health-professionals/
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bibi
Junior Member
Posts: 4
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Post by bibi on Nov 11, 2023 12:07:00 GMT 7
Hi I noticed you mentioned that you have DSP with zero work capacity I am wondering if someone can correct me if im wrong but doesn’t zero work capacity mean automatic indefinite portability? I’m asking because when I first contacted international services to inquire for myself they said to qualify for indefinite portability you need to have zero work capacity. In saying that, does that mean that even if someone has zero work capacity they still have to go through the application process, that it is not automatically granted?
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Post by Shaheem on Nov 11, 2023 12:42:48 GMT 7
Ah, I see. I also can't remember the last time I had to speak with someone from centerlink fortunately, it's not my favorite pasttime, doing just that whilst going wheresoever I please would certainly be nice. What is a CMO? Also. In the likely event that I soon have psyc reports deeming me unfit for work for at least five years, that's what it aught to say right? At least 5 years? Once I have that, and that also bolstering my current 20 points like you said, should I then be good to go ahead and apply for IP? CMO / Commonwealth Medical Officer I'm not advocating for the five years being included in the reports...... I think having it ticked off on the application forms is sufficient. It's entirely up to you whether or not to ask for them to include it. Your reports showing that in the opinion of your treating specialists your unlikely to be able to ever work again should also be sufficient. Centrelink Speak to show that is; 'No Further Work Capacity'. To bolster or at least maintain your points, your reports will need to show any new conditions that have been, 'fully diagnosed, treated and stabilised', Centrelink Speak again in order to maintain the veracity of the claim; that your treating professionals have become aware of and have been managing over the time ever since you originally acquired DSP. Then you should be good to go ahead and apply for IP....... Cheers 🐻 P.S. Edit:- Having your treating doctors familiar with the current MH tables, how they are applied and using the descriptors from them, i.e. Centrelink Speak; can also bolster your application. Sadly most of them haven't got the time to do this for their patients that are seeking IP/ UP. www.dss.gov.au/disability-and-carers-benefits-payments/impairment-tables-for-disability-support-pensionguides.dss.gov.au/social-security-guide/3/6/3/50www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2023L00188Information for Treating Professionals:- www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/disability-support-pension-medical-evidence-information-for-health-professionals?context=44231More info for professionals and a direct connection to Table 5 in the legislation. Access by scrolling down........ dsphelp.org.au/for-health-professionals/ I won't have any new conditions to add other than PTSD which was only a mere additional mention by the psychiatrist at the time, but is now a fully diagnosed condition. All should be sufficient. I have a hard copy of the tables and both the psychiatrist and clinical psychologist will read them and write reports in those terms i believe. In the event that the tables I have are not the most up to date or something could you kindly send me a link to the most up to date tables if you happen to be able to do that? Thanks bear
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Post by Shaheem on Nov 11, 2023 12:44:35 GMT 7
Oh, it seems you already have. My mistake, thanks
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Post by Shaheem on Nov 11, 2023 12:53:16 GMT 7
Hi I noticed you mentioned that you have DSP with zero work capacity I am wondering if someone can correct me if im wrong but doesn’t zero work capacity mean automatic indefinite portability? I’m asking because when I first contacted international services to inquire for myself they said to qualify for indefinite portability you need to have zero work capacity. In saying that, does that mean that even if someone has zero work capacity they still have to go through the application process, that it is not automatically granted? hi, from the little I know, you would still have to apply, and in addition have atleast 20 points on the impairment tables. And to correct you, while my psychiatrist deemed me to have no work capacity at the time, for at least to years, whoever did the JCA report at the time still listed my capacity at 0-7 hours. It seems that whoever does the JCA can say whatever they like regardless of medical evidence. It is them who makes the determination. That's why I need maximum evidence so that in the event they say some nonsense I will have perfectly good grounds to appeal their decision
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Post by bear on Nov 11, 2023 16:43:04 GMT 7
Hi I noticed you mentioned that you have DSP with zero work capacity I am wondering if someone can correct me if im wrong but doesn’t zero work capacity mean automatic indefinite portability? I’m asking because when I first contacted international services to inquire for myself they said to qualify for indefinite portability you need to have zero work capacity. In saying that, does that mean that even if someone has zero work capacity they still have to go through the application process, that it is not automatically granted? bibi to get automatic IP/ UP you must have a manifest determination. There are also two lists of further ilnesses at the bottom of the link showing what would also qualify as manifest. guides.dss.gov.au/social-security-guide/3/6/2/20Indefinite portability of DSP - severely impaired disability support pensioner
From 1 July 2012 DSP recipients with a permanent and severe impairment and no future capacity to work are eligible for indefinite portability of their pension. DSP recipients applying for portability under these provisions are required to undergo an assessment of their impairment and their future work capacity (JCA).
To be eligible for indefinite portability under these rules, a DSP recipient must:
have a severe impairment (1.1.S.127) which will persist at this level for at least the next 5 years (i.e. no significant improvement is expected to the level of impairment within this period), and have no future work capacity, that is be prevented by their impairment from performing any work independently of a program of support within the next 5 years, or be assessed as manifestly eligible for DSP under the current (post December 2002) manifest criteria. guides.dss.gov.au/social-security-guide/7/1/2/10In addition to the above rules you must also have at least 20 points on one of the tables and except for the terminally ill and manifest clients everyone else is required to go through the process. Since the department is aware of our determinations, surely an algorithm could determine those that qualify and send a letter asking whether or not you would like to avail yourself of IP/UP 🙏....... Yeah right 😂; cheers 🐻
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Post by Shaheem on Nov 11, 2023 17:53:58 GMT 7
In the event a request for UP is denied, whilst having overwhelming medical evidence of genuinely meeting the requirements ie at least 20 points and no future work capacity, how many times can you appeal? Would you just get another person doing the JCA who can decide that you don't meet the criteria even in the face of medical evidence to the contrary just as the first assessor did? I imagine technicaly they could do that, and can do whatever they please essentialy. If that where the case. Could you take it to a higher government body to appeal the decision?
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Post by bear on Nov 12, 2023 6:06:12 GMT 7
In the event a request for UP is denied, whilst having overwhelming medical evidence of genuinely meeting the requirements ie at least 20 points and no future work capacity, how many times can you appeal? Would you just get another person doing the JCA who can decide that you don't meet the criteria even in the face of medical evidence to the contrary just as the first assessor did? I imagine technicaly they could do that, and can do whatever they please essentialy. If that where the case. Could you take it to a higher government body to appeal the decision? If the application is rejected you can appeal to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal 1 & 2, all the way to the High Court. www.aat.gov.au/You can also apply for portability as many times as you like. From memory I think we had a member with an active appeal and second application, both running concurrently at one time. However, with good solid preparation and attention to detail most applications will be granted. Cheers 🐻
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Post by Shaheem on Nov 12, 2023 10:56:22 GMT 7
That's good to know, thanks
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